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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[BlueStreak]

The new Dragon Boat West 2008 team rankings has been posted at http://www.dragonboatwest.net/index.php?page=13.

As rumored, we have a new ranking system replacing the points based standings system of the past couple years. The new system includes all teams that race in festivals and regattas in the BC lower mainland, Vancouver Island and the surrounding region. This new system was developed in conjunction with the Alcan festival ranking team – they came up with the idea and logic behind it, we developed the software that would run through the calculations and produce the results.

How it Works
Other broad ranking systems work based on race time performance. Due to our situation here in BC where we have differing boat hulls and tidal conditions, it is pretty much impossible to accurately compare teams based on time. Instead, this ladder ranking system works on the premise that you can positively compare teams by comparing them to other teams they’ve directly raced. To do this, we look at a single heat, from the lowest placing to the highest placing and compare the two lowest placing teams (last and second last). Then we compare the higher placing team to the team that placed above it (second last and third last). We do this until we get to the top two teams in the heat. Each pair of teams has a “winning” team and a “losing” team. If the losing team is on the ladder and is in a higher rank than the winning team, the winning team simply moves up to the losing team position, pushing the losing team down one spot. Teams that are new to ranking and don’t beat any existing team on it, are added to the bottom of the list. Repeat this comparison for every single heat and for every race, and this is how produce the ranking.

Caveats
While the new ladder ranking system is very comprehensive, there are some quirks which would cause it to sometimes produce unexpected results. An example of one quirk is when a high division team has a bad race (or mid level team having a good race), resulting in a middle level division team taking a high position in the ladder. If that team, by luck, doesn’t race any other higher division teams for a while, it will stay in that high position on the ladder. There’s also the issue of comparing mainland teams to island teams. So far this year, there hasn’t been very much “cross-pollination” of teams between mainland and island races. That will soon change after the Alcan festival but for the time being, comparisons between mainland and island teams won’t be entire accurate, although relationships amongst teams on the same side of the Georgia Straight will be pretty much correct.

All in all, it comes to the amount of race data. The more race data available, the more accurate the ladder ranking system will be.

[madcap]

I notice that there are two Vancity Alpha teams listed in the rankings. There is only one team. What happens when you combine the two?

[BlueStreak]

I notice that there are two Vancity Alpha teams listed in the rankings. There is only one team. What happens when you combine the two?

Thanks for spotting that. To answer your question, in most cases the instance of the team with the most recent racing history will take precedence. it will be the team's highest ranking combined with any changes as of a result of its most recent racing history.

By the way, can anyone clear up for me which Eric Hamber team raced in the regatta today?

[eh?]

By the way, can anyone clear up for me which Eric Hamber team raced in the regatta today?

Hamber only had boat "s" and "w" at the FCRCC regatta. All the other regattas were just the usual Eric Hamber Eternal Dragon team.

[BernMan]

By the way, can anyone clear up for me which Eric Hamber team raced in the regatta today?

Hamber only had boat "s" and "w" at the FCRCC regatta. All the other regattas were just the usual Eric Hamber Eternal Dragon team.

So are there 3 Eric Hamber teams or just 1 primary team that split into 2 for this past weekend's regatta? Will there be 2 teams for the actual RTA Festival?

[rb]

It's nice to see this ladder ranking listing so many teams. I'm looking forward to seeing how it changes with every festival and see who's moving up and down. Of course every system has some caveats so it will be interesting to see how it works in the end.

I like how it's based on direct head-to-head races. If a lower-ranked team beats you they take your ranking, that's fair enough, that's how a ladder works in other sports.

Thanks for the effort on this.

[pammywc]

Hi there - will you include smaller events like the Bill Alley (Lotus Club)?
thanks for putting this together - it's nice to see our name in lights  

[BlueStreak]

will you include smaller events like the Bill Alley (Lotus Club)?

I would like to but the link to the results on the lotus website doesn't work.

[eh?]

there's the primary hamber team that split into two boats for the FCRCC Spring Regatta , and there will be 1 team according to the rta festival website.

By the way, can anyone clear up for me which Eric Hamber team raced in the regatta today?

Hamber only had boat "s" and "w" at the FCRCC regatta. All the other regattas were just the usual Eric Hamber Eternal Dragon team.

So are there 3 Eric Hamber teams or just 1 primary team that split into 2 for this past weekend's regatta? Will there be 2 teams for the actual RTA Festival?

[k2]

I am curious about these rankings.  It seems that Blu BY U finished ahead of the Save on Foods DragonSlayers at the Gorge Super Sprints, but they are behind them in the rankings.  How is this possible?

[BlueStreak]

I am curious about these rankings.  It seems that Blu BY U finished ahead of the Save on Foods DragonSlayers at the Gorge Super Sprints, but they are behind them in the rankings.  How is this possible?

Because ...
DragonSlayers came ahead of Dog Paddlers in Blue Final B.
Dog Paddlers also beat Westshore Warriors in that heat.
Before that, Westshore Warriors had edged by Xtreme Reach in heat #3.
Finally, Xtreme Reach beat Blu by U in Blue Final A.
*whew!*

there's the primary hamber team that split into two boats for the FCRCC Spring Regatta , and there will be 1 team according to the rta festival website.

In that case, I'll combine the primary Eric Hamber team's results into the "W" team, which is the higher ranking of the two Eternal dragon teams on the ladder currently.

[Monk]

Ok so now my head hurts...This description of the comparisons is a little ambigous...

AuBvwCxDyEzF is the current ranking. Each single letter represents a team.

ABCDEF run a heat, and the results from first to last are as follows:

CAEBDF

D beats F. Ranking-AuBvwCxDyEzF (no change)
B beats D. Ranking-AuBvwCxDyEzF (no change)
E beats B. Ranking-AuEBvwCxDyzF
A beats E. Ranking-AuEBvwCxDyzF (no change)
C beats A. Ranking-CAuEBvwxDyzF

Do I understand?

[BlueStreak]

Yup, that's correct.

Sorry if my explaination of the ladder is not the easiest to understand. I probably went into too much low level detail

I think rb summed it up quite nicely with "If a lower-ranked team beats you, they take your ranking"

[StrokeItHard]

Is it always by most recent as well? Let's say there's team A and team B and team A won 3 out of 4 meetings against team B, but in the most recent race between the two teams, team B edged team A and won the race. Team A would be ranked higher than team B right?

[BernMan]

I would think that it is based on the final rounds and not the preliminary rounds. It is very much possible that a few teams repeatedly race each other in seeding races but when it really counts is probably where the standings are affected. IMO of course. In other words I would think that final round results should be used. Don't you guys & gals agree?