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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[BlueStreak]

Hey Bernman. Yes, I do realize that there were a few strange results in the rankings - yet I published them this morning because it had been a week since the Victoria festival and I thought that there would some very anxious people out there waiting for the update. I just figured I'd take a look into it later. I always have to make a few corrections after I publish the rankings anyways...

Anyways, I have been digging through the results trying to figure how some rec level teams jumped in the standings so much and I believe I've found the culprit. But I'll still need a day or so because I want to double check a result so that I come back to you with a complete answer.

I also have a question??  How is it that teams who have raced in only one event get to maintain a high and untouchable ranking if they are never in another competition and so cannot be "dethroned?" I believe that teams who compete more often may be penalized in this system.

Yes, that is an inherent quirk of the ladder ranking system. After a while a while the ladder would get clogged up with a bunch teams that one raced once. I figure some sort of results expiry method could be used to clean up the ladder, but the only expiry period that makes sense would be a full year. And with that, Mauna Hale would have returned to Alcan, kicked some a** to retake their high ladder ranking and then jetted off away again for another year.

Another question...are these ranking objective or subjective?  Every team struggles from time to time with finding paddlers who miss the event for some very good reasons. So, the team you face in an event may be enhanced or diminished based on who is able to paddle.  Not meaning to be unkind to Gorging or to Bluestreak...  but at what point does a team become the "full team"?  Gorging very nearly took 1st.  If they had would their win have been witheld because they weren't the full team?   I'd say that if a team enters an event under their name, they need to be accountable for their result...even if the dragon boat community knows the result would have been different if......

There rankings are quite objective. All I do is click the "Generate Ladder" button, and it just goes off - making hundreds of ranking calculations per second. There's very little I can do manipulate the final results with the exception of ignoring individual heat results. That being said, invalidating Without Warning's win over Gorging was requested by a member of Without Warning... Maybe I should have mentioned this in the first place.

[gunghaggis]

One way to move past the "one time only teams" is to incorporate a "points system" for "additional races" similar to grand prix circuits.  If you want to keep your ranking... then you have to keep racing!!! 

This would reward actual teams that compete together over a season, rather than teams assembled for only one race.  But I doubt anybody is really keeping roster records for this list.

Ranking systems for tennis, world cup skiing etc give points for top finishers, which accumulate.  The former DBWest ranking system seemed to  include medal wins at every category instead of a percentile ranking, so a team that won lots of medals at lower rec divisions, could almost do as well getting points as comp teams who cleaned up with medals. 

If the ranking system is simply "look who's strongest on this list" - then we are comparing a World Club Crew depleted Gorging Dragons team in August to a Mauna Hale team specifically stacked for the Rio Tinto Alcan races (which also included Canadian outrigger paddlers).  Unfortunately it seems Gorging Dragons doesn't get points for racing in Penang. 

But it would be fun to ask, hypothetically - who would be stronger?
Gorging Dragaons in Penang?
Mauna Hale at RT Alcan?
or FCRCC in Sydney (not quite a year ago)?

Hint for moving up:  Go after a higher ranked team who will be fielding a weaker team at a race.

It seems mercenary - but this is how ranking systems at some of the paddling clubs work.  If you challenge and beat a higher ranked paddler for a time trial when they are having an off week - you move up.

This ladder ranking is designed to be FUN, incorporate the latest race results, and doesn't quite bear complicated scrutiny for lots of team and event variables.

So Thanks for your efforts Blue Streak... you have generated lots of interest and conversation.

[BlueStreak]

Anyways, I have been digging through the results trying to figure how some rec level teams jumped in the standings so much and I believe I've found the culprit. But I'll still need a day or so because I want to double check a result so that I come back to you with a complete answer.

Ok, I've found the cause of wierd results in the rankings. Take a look at the Vernon festival, heat #40 : you will see that in this race, Calgary Race Club finished last amoung teams that were mostly Rec level. This caused a chain reaction of the teams that beat CRC and the teams that beat the teams that beat CRC and so on... to jump way up in the rankings.

I've done a bit of asking around and have confirmed that CRC experienced some kind of problem during this race which caused them to finish last (their time of 3:40 also looks suspiciously wrong). So I have striken that result out of the ranking ladder calculations and the new rankings look much more realistic.

[paddlecwazy]

Great job!

On a going forwards basis, it might be good policy to exclude from calculations the presence of a team from a race when they have a serious steering/equipment issue that generates an anomalous result.

[NFW]

It definitely looks more realistic now lol
Thanks for fixing it BlueStreak!

Keep up the good work! 

[gunghaggis]

Yes Blue Streak...

Calgary had steering problems in Calgary in their semi-final.  They spun around in the middle of a race in those darn Dynasty boats in a windy chop.  Gung Haggis had some problems too! 

Calgary recovered in the B finals... and won gold - but in a division lower than they expected to be in.

But some rec teams can now claim they beat Calgary in their semi-final... and that's racing.
It really should be the final that should count, as the teams should all be of equal or close ability. This will limit chances of the quirks that you speak of.

Anyways... it was fun having Gung Haggis Fat Choy at #59 for a bit (until you found that Calgary glitch), now we are at #201.
Glad I was able to copy a picture of it.  hee hee... I have to show the team tomorrow.

As for our ranking...
Guess we will have to stack our team for Taiwanese races, and go after a high placed team to steal their position! 

[Aquaman]

Great job!
On a going forwards basis, it might be good policy to exclude from calculations the presence of a team from a race when they have a serious steering/equipment issue that generates an anomalous result.

I very strongly agree with this.
We had an unfortunate mishap in our Vernon semi...and it happens in dragon boating.  We wanted to race against the Sudden Impacts and Pac Reaches of the world in the "A" final.  Instead, we ended up depriving a rec team of gold in the "B" division.  We were not very proud of that.
Similarly, last year we were struck by Gorging Dragons in the A final, resulting in us (and 4 other teams) finishing ahead of GD. 
We know it is not realistic to put us ahead of GD based on that result...you gotta beat them in a clean race!

[BlueStreak]

In case anyone's wondering, the next rankings update will be after the Kelowna festival. It will include results from the Taiwanese, Seattle, Penticton and Kelowna festivals.

[Flint]

When will this be updated? Not that I am impatient or anything....is it ready yet? 

[BlueStreak]

Still working on it... Sorry, work's been very busy.

[BlueStreak]

Hey folks. Just wanted to let you know that I have entered the results from the Taiwanese, Seattle and Kelowna festivals into the database, but I'm getting a small bit of "wierdness" in the ladder results. So I'm going to need a day or two more to figure out what's causing these wierd results before I publish the last ladder ranking.

[LittleSchrodinger]

Another case of division discrepancies? What teams are involved this time?

[NFW]

Hey folks. Just wanted to let you know that I have entered the results from the Taiwanese, Seattle and Kelowna festivals into the database, but I'm getting a small bit of "wierdness" in the ladder results. So I'm going to need a day or two more to figure out what's causing these wierd results before I publish the last ladder ranking.

Take your time, and thanks for working hard at it! 

[LittleSchrodinger]

Um, not meant to be a hassle...

But it's been a good while, hadn't it be? So how's the ranking coming along?

[doolaik]

for those who havent noticed, BlueStreak updated the rankings