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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[Photog]

Don't we need better coaches? is that not a resourse ?

I do not think we "need" better coaches, though it would be great if we did, or our existing coaches improved.
I am not entirely sure why you keep refering to Fischer, but I will say that I will take an olympic calibre coach over the latest greatest equipment any time. But what are you going to do? Force all Olympic paddlers to become dragon boat coaches?

[Lethal Weapon]

Don't we need better coaches? is that not a resourse ?

I'd like to know your definition of a "better Coach"
Granted DB does not have the infrastucture of Canoe BC or other recognized organizations with certified coaches and different levels BUT even though some people have taken the DBC (Dragon Boat Canada) technical training there is no real course for experience that the "uncertified" coaches can offer. I think it is great DBC is moving in the right direction but saying we need better coaches is not the issue. I feel we could improve more if we pooled and shared the knowledge that is available and out there from the more experienced (not certified) coaches. I applaud Water's Edge for offering those excellent course and seminars which are not only directed at coahes but paddlers as well.  The knowledge base available at water's edge for DB is vast and draws not just from DB but OC and and other small boat skill sets as well which is just what the doctor ordered!
I personally have learned more about paddling from a non DB coach than any other coach on the basics but also have the privilige to learn race strategy and specific DB skillsets from an excellent DB coach as well.
The creek has some awesome coaches and ,true, resources are not plentiful for the serious DBer, I am sure options are on the way.....(and yes Guido, you are a "great coach too!")

[Photog]

Another reason I am not entirely sold on the "need better coaches" claim is because there are other problems.
#1. IMHO is commitment. Particularly amongst paddlers. How often has a team gone off course because their steersman was not able to control the boat and how often was that a result of the steersman not having enough experience on a fully crewed (powered) boat?
I, myself am a prime example of bad committment, i will admit to you all that i only made 4 practices this season.  

[gunghaggis]

Melanie's on the right track regarding infrastructure and coaching.  "Dragon Boat BC" is not organized.  Dragon Boat racing is not a recognized sport by Sport BC.  Most people who call themselves dragon boat coaches have no idea what NCCP stands for and are not members of the Coaching Association of BC, nevermind a dragon boat coaching association of BC.

Look at canoeing and rowing - both recieve money from Sport BC, and Federal sport bodies.  Dragon Boating is considered a "recreational activity" in the same manner as "recreational skiing,"  or beer-league hockey.  Just look at how many people rate "beer gardens" as important to their paddling enjoyment.

I talked with Dr. Eric Broom, a few years ago about the state of dragon boating as an organized sport.  (No... I am not looking for an excuse to drop his name....) Dr. Broom is the grandfather of NCCP training in BC, as well as professor emeritus of UBC Human Kinetics, as well as a sport consultant to the BC Provincial Government.  He stated that all dragon boating needs is a few people with their Level 3 NCCP, to demonstrate to Sport BC that we have high quality coaches, register with Coaching Association of BC, then we can start to apply for funding.

If dragon boat racing becomes a "recognized sport" then maybe the top junior paddlers will move to dragon boating... right now they are in sprint kayak and sprint canoe race programs - NOT dragon boating.  Both Hugh Fisher and Andrea Dillon have flat water canoe and kayak backgrounds.  So does Kamini Jain and Meaghan McDonough of the FC Women, so does dragon boat legend Larry Cain and the latest Canadian paddling sensation - Gold medalist Adam Van Koeverden.... gee is there a pattern here?  Adam paddles kayak for serious competition - then goes off dragon boating to the Worlds for fun!

[Lethal Weapon]

Most people who call themselves dragon boat coaches have no idea what NCCP stands for and are not members of the Coaching Association of BC

True enough but that does not take away from their experience and knowledge they have to share. DBC technical level I requries NCCP A as  a requirement for certification. DBC is moving in the rigth direction to make DB a recognized sport. Is the Coach of your team, Gung Haggis, NCCP trained or DBC certified?

[gunghaggis]

Lethal Weapon wrote:

Is the Coach of your team, Gung Haggis, NCCP trained or DBC certified?

Hello LW

Thank you for asking...
Both Coach Bob Brinson and myself were certified by Alan Carlsson for DB technical.  We both supported him when he first started offering technical courses.  We also were both presenters at the first Dragon Boat Coaching Conference organized by Carlsson.  I have also taken NCCP Level 3 theory and Technical for Volleyball + courses in athletics and sport psychology at SFU.  

Lethal Weapon wrote: re: NCCP

True enough but that does not take away from their experience and knowledge they have to share.  DBC technical level I requries NCCP A as a requirement for certification. DBC is moving in the rigth direction to make DB a recognized sport.

True - but is it the "right and correct" knowledge and experience they are sharing?  There are many experienced paddlers out there who are asked to "coach" a team, and they simply pass on the information that they learned from whichever teams they were on.  This the traditional "way of coaching," rampant in every sport.  But every organized sport now recommends that coaches take both technical and theory NCCP courses.  Level 3 is required to coach at the provincial level.  Jay Triano, Canadian basketball Hall of Famer, had to take NCCP theory level 4 in order to coach at the National Level.

There are stories about the old FC teams who would do strange little paddling motions, when they knew people were watching them - just to see if the other teams would copy them, and of course they did - without understanding why.  All before the days of conferences, internet and web forums.  

There are times when I was on the ADBF race committee and we would share "HORROR stories" about what we saw happening on the creek.  Everybody still does this in their own networks...

The coaching mentorship program is on the right track.  We do need to pass and share information.  Paddling and Coaching styles are not static, they evolve as do paddlers.  There are styles for beginners and styles for experienced paddlers.  There are specific techniques for sprint racing, and long distance, for small and large paddlers, for young and old paddlers.  

In an ideal world, we would all have degrees in Human Kinetics, NCCP training, and do coaching workshops with Andrea Dillon, Kamini Jain, Barry Lam, Alan Carlsson and Hugh Fisher.  But in the meantime... we take the courses, ask to go out with other coaches, share our information, and know that the Vancouver dragon boat community is evolving slowly but surely.

[Lethal Weapon]

Thanks
i am all for the certification of DB as Recognized sport.

do coaching workshops with Andrea Dillon, Kamini Jain, Barry Lam, Alan Carlsson and Hugh Fisher

Don't forget the excellent workshops offered by Water's Edge as well!

[gunghaggis]

I would include a workshop with Jackie Webber and Pat Barker on my "wish list" as well...  Jackie's done some great work since arriving on the Vancouver dragon boat scene, and Pat's 1996 book "Dragon Boats: A Celebration" has just been republished in Canada. http://members.aol.com/Canada616/pat_book.htm

I talked with Jackie Webber at Dragon Zone today.  She informed me that "Water's Edge" is working very closely with supporting Alan Carlsson's Dragon Boat technical course for recogition by Dragon Boat Canada.  This will be one step closer to integration for NCCP recognition.  At about the same time Alan was developing his technical course, somebody in Ottawa was doing the same thing. Typical East vs West isolated streams of development.  It used to be that the only way you could get technical information about paddling was to take the NCCP Flat Water paddling course.

There is a lot that takes place informally as well as formally for "the state of dragon boating" in Vancouver and BC.  But we need to develop an official Vancouver or BC organization that can lobby Vancouver interests. An "elected" Dragon Boat Canada BC/Vancouver chapter has yet to make a more public presence.

Vancouver started off with RECREATIONAL dragon boat paddling, as a means to develop more multiculturalism in our city.  But in recent years as both interest in IDBF and World Club Crew Championships emerged, clubs are finally waking up to the IDBF rules and regulations for country representation - thus the SPORT stream has really developed.  Next will follow NCCP recognition then hopefully recognition by the provincial and federal sporting organizations.  In the meantime, a real strong RECREATIONAL component must be developed to serve as the entry point for the SPORT development side.

We are currently witnessing a boom in Lower Mainland RECREATIONAL dragon boat races.
This year we witness FOUR new races and regattas:
White Rock regatta,
Abreast in a Boat 10 Year Anniversary,
Sea Vancouver regatta,
Fraser Valley Dragon Boat Race at Harrison Lake
+ a FIFTH event in Vernon BC!

In 2003, I helped set up the Vancouver International Taiwanese Dragon Boat Race.  This is a race that has two main RECREATIONAL objectives: 1) Offer dragon boaters a different taste of "classical" dragon boat races with "flag grabbing" and 2) Introduce Taiwanese culture to the larger Vancouver population.

[Lethal Weapon]

Thanks
ITs looking like DBC is moving in the right direction. My limited experience in coaching DB has so far been very interesting. I have been watching a lot of the coaches on the water and I see a lot of areas that the NCCP course training would be helpful for them. Its not a miracle course by any means but I have coached VB as well for 20 years and never really had any formal training or certification but taking the NCCP level A and B opened my eyes to better methods to "get the message" across if I may say so. It does make a huge difference to be coached by a certifed higher level NCCP coach in any discipline as they have the background and knowledge of their sport PLUS the methodologies to maximize your training. Alan Carlsson for example is a NCCP Certifed Flatwater coach but his understanding of the technique used to move a boat and how it moves can cross different water sport disciplines (we can learn a lot about paddling from our OC and Flattie friends!) One day I hope to gain a better understanding as well so I can pass it to the sport of DB. Until then, keep learning and taking courses!