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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[baoser]

Amen to what gunghaggis said. On another note:

1) There are about 500 volunteers that help make ADBF happen. (Source - the President of the ADBF) Try paying all of them some money with limited funding... good luck!
2) It costs a lot of money and volunteered effort to put on and manage an event like this. Kudos and thank you to everyone involved...(Research the Sea Vancouver Festival - they went under... to the tune of $1.2 million dollars. On the other hand, Alcan's been running strong for over a decade)
3) If you're really interested in researching their financials, I believe you can approach the BC government and ask to see their balance sheets. I believe all registered societies have to make this publicly known to their members if they ask...I think.
4) Seaboy - I'd suggest that if you're really concerned about making Alcan better, you should get involved in planning it. I'm sure the organizers would welcome your help and insights. Talk is easy, taking action to change the situation is hard.

[seaboy]

Very interesting! I had always understood that adbf was not a society but if they are then I will be able to get thier financials and I will share with all of you! I don't know why there is no info about there status as a society or their financials on their website, at least not that I could find.

I don't have to become a politician to question and bring about change in the government, likewise with adbf.

[PaddleFunk]

Back to the key question here, Why is ADBF smaller this year?  I think the simple answer is because of it's success.  

Now hold on a moment, I know this may sound like a hypocritical statement but hear me out.  Take a step back and look at the bigger picture.  

The success of Alcan and the popularity of the sport has spawned new festivals in new venues; two significant BC festivals last year alone (off the top of my head).  By creating choice and by DB associations creating their own venues additional choices have developed.  Where 5 years ago you basically had Alcan, Victoria, and Kelowna to choose from... you can now add Harrison, Nanaimo, Vernon, Richmond, and I'm sure a raft of other venues outside of BC that people can go to.  It was the case for many years that Alcan was the only show in town... but now because of it's success it has created competition.  This provides choice and choice created a place for other dollars to flow so of course you will see the number of teams participating drop.  I'm guessing many of the team's from the interior are choosing to go to Vernon rather than Alcan, I noticed some of the Valley Teams missing which you can be they are going to make showing in Harrison.  I'm also guessing that you can expect to see that a number of the Canadian teams with traveling budgets will likely end up in Toronto this year to check out the new site for the Worlds.  (Not that padding in Lake Ontario is any more appealing than False Creek)  

Also given the current space crunch being experienced at the SE end of the creek I honestly think that a smaller festival was due.

Beyond the Economics of choice for BC teams and for that mater everyone in the world, there is also the economics and convenience of traveling to this country, specifically Vancouver, right now... the Dollar is flirting with $0.90 US and it is a pain in the behind to get across the border for US teams heck many of them likely thought they needed a passport and maybe a Visa to get into the country now... and moving forward we may see fewer and fewer US teams because of the tightening of border security.  As for the travelling teams I don't know that KLM had any real problems but I'm guessing that have good travel agents... but I'm guessing from the variety of uniforms and padding styles the Youth Rowing Society may have had a few documentation issues.  

So I think if we are to get a true perspective of what really caused the number of teams to fall off this year we can't put it down to the cost of the festival and how the cynics among us (I normally being one) automatically assume that it is the cost of the festival and that they wouldn't have these problems if they didn't squander their money or frivolous things like toilet paper for the blue booths... Heck I'm surprised that nobody observed the cost cutting efforts by only having hand sanitizer in half the potties if that...

Anyway... back on topic... to assume that the festival society has lots of money to spend or that it should be spent more wisely... put up or shut up... get on the board and then move to open and public financial disclosure and then lets see how you feel about it when people start complaining about your honorarium.  Also them maybe you can explain how to maintain the viability of the society when as far as I understand it took a bath at Sea Vancouver last year.  (I know I know undermining my argument about value) So if the festival cost me $100 this year rather than $90 it did last year to ensure the continued operation of an event that I may not love but I do feel is a great training and proving ground for those who want to play.  


I admit not my favorite festival likely not even in the top 3 but still something I think adds to the sport and that I will continue to participate in to learn and improve how I race how I paddle and how I train to better my self and my team against the top tier in our corner of the world.  You have the same choice to make... if you have a problem with the festival or just don't like the dollars involved then accept that and find a festival that meets your specific needs.

The choice is your's!  Now release the dogs... and let the feed back begin.

[gunghaggis]

PaddleFunk makes a great case that ADBF is smaller this year because of it's "success."

Yes, ADBF has played a key role in the development of dragon boat festivals, and also the sport.
1996 saw the first World Club Crew Championship hosted in North America at ADBF.  There used to be lots of international teams coming to ADBF in the 1980's and 1990's... because... if they didn't go to Hong Kong, where would they go?  Vancouver !

Now top teams in search of competition go to the IDBF Championships, World Club Crew Championships, as well as their national or regional race-offs.  Teams such as Tacoma DBA, Bay Area Dragons, and Dieselfish chose not to come to ADBF this year.  TDBA is heading to both Tampa for the US Nationals, and to Toronto for the WCC.

Only two international teams came to ADBF this year.  One Dutch team (KLM), and one Filipino teeam (PYROS) - which unfortunately came with substantially less than 20 paddlers, no drummer and no steers - due to visa challenges and last minute airline challenges.  Gung Haggis hosted them, and we were asked by ADBF to help them find paddlers.  Ack!

More DB festivals and regattas lend way to the development of a dragon boat circuit or grand prix cup for: BC? Western Canada? Pacific Northwest?  It's been discussed by Dragon Boat Canada types and race organizers for more than a few years.

Ironically, the Alcan DBF must look at "Sustainability" as a festival and as a race.  How does the ADBF help sustain the development of new teams if:
1) the price is out of reach for many first time teams
2) ADBF has eliminated the 4 mandatory practices formerly included with registration price
3) All low performance teams are expected to LOSE all their races on Saturday?  That's no fun!

I say bring back the Competitive, Recreation and Novice divsions from pre-2002.
ADBF must re-think, re-cycle, and re-use, to be sustainable and viable in both our dragonboat and festival communities.

But then again, what makes ADBF special?  High quality teams and high quality racing!  Where else do you get 9 boats charging down the course with 5 of them all within a single second.  Where else do you get 19 boats on a 2 km course all at the same time.  And are you prepared if there is an accident?  That takes $$ and good management.

TDBA pioneered the concept of "dragon boat barrel racing", we brought it to the Vancouver Taiwanese DBR, and Fraser Valley DBA incorporated it into their race on Harrioson Lake.  Vancouver Taiwanese Race is unique with flag grabbing boats, same ones used up and down the Mississippi, but lighter and faster than the Portland-Kaoshung boats.  Calgary people keep inviting me up, but I would rather vacation in San Francisco for the same $$. Sorry Calgary...

[Angus]

This is strictly aimed at the festival organizers and not at the wonderful volunteers who made this weekend memorable.

I think ADBF is losing market share because other festivals have been offering a better package.

Let's do a case study of the Toronto DB festival. Compare it to ADBF in your mind as we go along.

- Medals in every division - there are NO consolation rounds.
- Free admission for spectators
- 180 teams
- Grand Champion gets airfare to compete in Asia
- >10 specialty championships
- 6 teams per final: This means that 3 out of 6 teams medal! Not counting specialty races, 50% of entrants will walk away with hardware!

All this at entry fees comparable to ADBF:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(A)Corporate teams (Premier mixed, women): $2,500 + GST
(B)Community teams (Premier mixed, women): $1,800 + GST
(C)University teams (Premier mixed, women):  $1,500 + GST
(D)Junior mixed teams: $750 + GST
The team entry fees include 5 standard practice sessions.

If an international mixed team could pay about the same price to go to Vancouver or Toronto, and the races are only one week apart. Which race would they enter?
The one where they have a >50% chance of coming home with something to show their sponsors?
Or the one where they have a 20% chance of winning something depending on tidal currents (lane positioning), whether they make a "real" final and while competing for a top 3 finish against 8 other teams instead of 5?

I don't understand how TO does it.

But I have to give some kudos to ADBF this year:
--------------------------------------------
1. Races were the most fair that I have ever seen at ADBF. Bravo!
2. Races were more on time than in the past.
3. Racers village was a tight fit, but it also made it a more social environment than in the past.

[Swordfish]

But then again, what makes ADBF special?  High quality teams and high quality racing!  Where else do you get 9 boats charging down the course with 5 of them all within a single second.  Where else do you get 19 boats on a 2 km course all at the same time.  And are you prepared if there is an accident?  That takes $$ and good management.

And contrary to what some are seeming to suggest, it takes more than an empty parking lot and some portable toilets to attract that kind of competition.  That would be an entirely different sort of competition 

In the end, it's hardly a surprise that Alcan is an expensive festival.  Ultimately it's a team decision whether or not to enter - if you don't like, then don't go.  It's true that you could probably go to 2 or 3 other races for the price.  But then you probably won't be a part of the same kind of competition.  Choose wisely, have fun 

[Ken]

hey gung haggis,

i agree whole heartedly with your messages on this thread.  i do chuckle that this price issue comes up every year.

for 5 or 6 years (i really can't remember) i served as one of the race directors for the California Dragon Boat Association.  and the end of the season shabang was always more expensive than you would think.  details aside you will just have to believe that.

the cool thing is that down here in San Fran we are a bit smaller so we hope that we deliver a lot for the $$.  we don't have 8-9 boat heats (yet) and we only have just shy of 100 mixed teams in attendence.  so we get to put in more races for everybody, and try to provide value to all the teams.  the visiting teams from out of the area get the best deal with the great hotel deals, and included transportation to the race site.

but i'll tell you it takes some mad crazy effort to get it all together.  and i'm sure it is no different for my friends that run Alcan.  it's all done because a group of folks care a lot to see it get done.  i really doubt anybody is getting rich. 

i guess its a free market, if you don't think it's worth the $$ then i suppose you skip it.  from what i can see at 170 teams, lots of folks like it. 

ken\

[gunghaggis]

Hey Ken of Dieselfish  (my favorite SF area team)
& everybody else.

Why is ADBF smaller this year? 
Why does SF race deliver more bang for the buck?

Because the paddlers care more in SF... SF does a very good job of promoting their races.  Dragon Warriors were up in Vancouver, with friendly smiles and inviting people down to SF.  Dragon Warriors (my 2nd favorite SF team... who will become #1 when I win a medal with them), have incredible people as the key organizers for the SF Race.

When I was last in SF, it was paddlers who were volunteering time during the races to help perform dock crew - not high school students trying to fill up their community service requirements.  For paddlers to be doing dock duty, it really means something.  The paddlers appreciate it more.  I know that the paddlers also respect and listen to me more when I have done dock duty at ADBF.

San Francisco has the BEST skit night party... The out of town teams compete against each other, and real community is developed.  Vancouver is sucking big time in this department.  Out of town teams come to Vancouver and are left to their own - okay... we try to find them "hosts" that can help them plan activities.  Years ago, ADBF hosted a bbq at Mavericks and a social on the Friday night, when a lot of teams were still arriving.

Another goodl reason the out of town teams are no longer coming to ADBF:  No more good parties!  The Plaza of Nations party was legendary.   We need more paddlers and teams in Vancouver who are willing to organize GREAT parties for the out of town teams, and to make ADBF work better.  And that's another reason why ADBF is smaller today.

[rightarm]

Another goodl reason the out of town teams are no longer coming to ADBF:  No more good parties!  The Plaza of Nations party was legendary.   We need more paddlers and teams in Vancouver who are willing to organize GREAT parties for the out of town teams, and to make ADBF work better.  And that's another reason why ADBF is smaller today.

amen to that

[Colossus]

Richard has obviously never been to a FODB/V02/RGL party at Crush   always memorable (or not, as the case may be) 8)

[zeus]

Let's do a case study of the Toronto DB festival. Compare it to ADBF in your mind as we go along.

- Medals in every division - there are NO consolation rounds.
- 6 teams per final: This means that 3 out of 6 teams medal! Not counting specialty races, 50% of entrants will walk away with hardware!

I pride myself on the Alcan medals I've earned, not on the stats of achieving one. The level of competition, not the number of teams entered, is the reason why doing well at Alcan, medal or not, makes the event much more special. I would only add divisions where it is merited, such as the calibre of Rec A and B teams this year, not to increase the probability of achieving a medal. I can go to a dollar store to get one.

[Rossifumi]

the festival side of ADBF has certainly seemed to decline, and the overall number of teams has also gone down slightly as well.

But what's most important is the competition seems to be getting stronger all the time, and at the end of the day, that's what's most important.

[darth tater]

The highschool students who volunteered at the Alcan Festival, the Alcan Regatta, and the FCRCC Regatta were not simply trying to fulfill their volunteer service hours.  They are paddlers and they will be our future paddlers.  They volunteered their time, on the weekend before exams, because they want to contribute to a sport that they've grown to love, and I think they should be given more credit for their enthusiasm, spirit, and services.

[zeus]

well said Darth...while many were in beer garden , the RaceFace junior team won an award for outstanding volunteers. Their service to the community and Alcan's acknowledgement is what will spawn the next generation of paddlers.

[meowzers]

zeus & darth tater,

RaceFace had alot of fun raiding the docks for both Alcan and FCRCC Regattas. We hope to see everyone at the docks during the Taiwanese Festival[if we get the paper work in on time] ! We'll be cheering everyone on!

Till then ~

cheers,
Anna
[addon]the races wouldn't be possible without the crew from water's edge - they've done one helluva job![/addoff]