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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[Luke]

At TW festival last year, the finish line drifted so bad the teams on the outer lanes had to paddles an extra half boat length.  And they post-poned most the Sat afternoon races till the next day due to poor planning.

I have not seen such things happen at Alcan. 

You're not the only who has to paddle early as well, all the junior teams have had to wake up at around 6 and get down to the site at 7 so they can marshall at 8.

[@1 with the blade]

Most people that help out are volunteers. I think the lady at the top gets paid big $$$ !!!, also the person that started it all here in Vancouver.

With the Sponsors ie: Cathy Pacific. They also paid to advertize their company.. look around this weekend with all the companies that will have banners all throughout the festival. Your telling me that these companies did not paid a cent to put a banner up???

I would tell you some don't pay a cent!

Having been involved with a supplier over the years they are often asked to reduce charged rates with an offer to post the banners. Win - win situation, the festival pays a reduced rate saving some money and the supplier gets some "free" advertisement. Its business...

[seaboy]

There is an easier way to bring the entrance fee down...cut out all the FRILLS ..just treat it like the ALCAN Regatta....if that's what you want....this type of setup will be way cheaper...no sponsors, no tents, no stage, no food, no media coverage, no frills...just racing....

My real point is, until you really know the overall overhead of this festival, it's too easy to say, "it cost too much".

Secondly, do you think someone is getting "rich" on our $2K entrance fee for each team? If so, I want to know who it is....

no sponsors (who cares, you think we should pay more for the privilege of having sponsor? I thought it was the other way around!)

no tents (who cares they are too small anyway, I'd rather just have a spot for us to pitch our own tent, and I'm pretty sure those military tents don't cost adbf anything anyway)

no stage (what paddler cares, we are too busy racing to see the entertainment and I don't need a stage to get my medal)

no food??? (what food, you mean the greasy overpriced crap that we have to use dragon dollars to buy! Or is the festival providing some sort of free food that I missed out on?)

no media coverage (again who cares it doesn't benefit us anyways just sells tickets so adbf makes more money)

frills? I never saw them handing out frills did you get your frills? Oh well, I look better in a feather boa anyway.

Sure its easy to say "it costs too much" it's also easy to say that things are expensive, but what really matters is what do these things cost adbf? How much do they spend on team tents? I don't think they cost adbf anything. How much do they spend on the venue? I know it used to cost a lot at Plaza of Nations. But do they pay Science world or the City? Boats, paddles, pdfs cost money, but how much does the adbf spend on them? I think most of this cost is covered by local clubs. I realize they are not non-profit so they don't have to release thier financials, but that doesn't mean we can't pose the question. Does anybody have any hard figures on what the festival actually spends on various things?

I think it is very obvious that someone is getting rich on the $2k entrance fee especially when you factor in all the other revenue streams. Just my two dragon cents.

[Photog]

I would imagine that the porta-potties cost quite a bit to rent, and that the adbf pays dz for use of their docks, etc, as well as all the motor boats used. Marketing the event, fencing the grounds and then paying someone (the city?) to clean up the grounds afterwards, all probably cost a lot too.
As far as the entertainment goes, IMHO they had a decent variety of performers ranging from filipino dancers to east indian dancers/singers to taiko drumming, and Paula Toledo who is a pop/folk singer. 

[Oldtimer]

I would imagine that the porta-potties cost quite a bit to rent, and that the adbf pays dz for use of their docks, etc, as well as all the motor boats used.

Dragon Zone is run by ADBF. Come on who are you kidding. All  the motor boats are owned by ADBF and Dragon Zone.

At the most, the porta-potties should be in the tens not hundreds of thousands in cost, I'm guessing.

[gunghaggis]

Please remember that it is named Alcan Dragon Boat FESTIVAL, and not Alcan Dragon Boat RACES.

The Festival was founded to promote multicultural activities and understanding. In 1987, when the Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival Society was founded, racial tolerance was not as high as it was now.  There was a backlash against the increased immigration from Hong Kong, as many immigrants were unsure what would happen when Hong Kong was reunited with China.

Helping to prevent racism, and develop cultural harmony takes $S$.
Witness the present Chinese Head Tax redress movement, as well as all the Canadian Heritage initiatives.  We all want to ensure that extreme racism such as the internment of Japanese Canadians or the Chinese Exclusion Act, NEVER happens again.

Dragon Boat Festivals across North America were primarily founded by Chinese community organizations wishing to raise the profile of chinese culture, history, and community contributions, and also by non-Chinese community organizations to help develop multicultural activities for their cities and communities.

From 1987 to 1992, I used to attend the ADBF just for the cultural entertainment, ignoring the races.

More often today, Dragon boat racing has also grown into a business, and a sport community... no longer just a festival of "community paddling."  Witness many organizations using dragon boat races to raise funds for their teams or communities now.  Witness the proliferation of "regattas", regional "race-offs", and the developement of IDBF sanctioned events.

So what is more important in the big picture?

Having more cheaper regattas for the many growing teams?
Having large cultural festivals that promote cultural diversity?
Having strictly race events for the development of the sport?
Can we have both or all?

[meowzers]

I would imagine that the porta-potties cost quite a bit to rent, and that the adbf pays dz for use of their docks, etc, as well as all the motor boats used.

Dragon Zone is run by ADBF. Come on who are you kidding. All  the motor boats are owned by ADBF and Dragon Zone.

At the most, the porta-potties should be in the tens not hundreds of thousands in cost, I'm guessing.

1) Dragon Zone is run by ADBF
Dragon Zone exists because they have an elite team who makes the race part of the festival happen. They are the ones who setup YOUR race course while we, the paddlers are enjoying a soft mattress...warm blankets/bodies etc.

2) How many chase boats were there?
what’s the rate km/tank?
I wonder what’s in those tanks?
could it be JUST fuel that you can pump from a near by gas station or a mixed combination?[i'm pretty sure the ones who have used those zodiacs know]
how much would each tank cost? times that by how many chase boats times that by how many times they need to be refueled

every year someone finds the need to complain about the festival[every festival] AFTER they've enjoyed it.

3) STOP guessing! If your peeve is cost of admission/utilities/equipment - take economics[class] it'll answer your questions; particularly the topic of "supply and demand". Start researching find your facts before you start accusations. Find out the rates at which the portapodies are rented at. Find the cost of removal of fecal/urinal matter - my advice use "credible sources"

4) last but not least - Dragon boat isn't ONLY for us. Take it from a Non paddlers/family/friends/tourist persective ~ do you see what they see?! hopefully not JUST dragon boat races. Humans have a need to feel a sense of pleasure/enjoyment...however not everyone has the same interest due to the variation of personalities. 

other than that

enjoy what has been offered. it's not only about you!

[seaboy]

Please remember that it is named Alcan Dragon Boat FESTIVAL, and not Alcan Dragon Boat RACES.

The Festival was founded to promote multicultural activities and understanding. In 1987, when the Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival Society was founded, racial tolerance was not as high as it was now.  There was a backlash against the increased immigration from Hong Kong, as many immigrants were unsure what would happen when Hong Kong was reunited with China.

Helping to prevent racism, and develop cultural harmony takes $S$.
Witness the present Chinese Head Tax redress movement, as well as all the Canadian Heritage initiatives.  We all want to ensure that extreme racism such as the internment of Japanese Canadians or the Chinese Exclusion Act, NEVER happens again.

So what your saying is we the paddlers are subsidizing the fesitval. When really we are the headline entertainment, so they should pay us.

Tell you what, why don't we just have the races and the festival at the same time but keep them financially seperate, we cover all the costs associated with racing all the other revenue streams go to the festival. We don't get a free pass into the festival so if we want to partake we have to buy a ticket like everyone else all we get for our entrance fee is races.

[Luke]

Seaboy,

I assisted in the race course set-up, without the Army guys it probly would have taken days.  I for one praise them for their tent.  Without the organized tents the 140+ teams would just all be fighting for space.  Also for those who can't afford them were probly glad it was there when it was pouring.

Media coverage and sponsors help promote the sport, which adds competition.  The stage was compliment for those who medalled, you sound as if you're  bitter that you didn't get to go on?

To think the volunteers put in time and effort for the likes of you..

[Lethal Weapon]

To think the volunteers put in time and effort for the likes of you..

You tell'em luke!

consider the cost in to organize this event as I am sure there are paid staff for that.
Cost of Insurance is probably pretty high
Permits for everything
hiring waters edge to run the event (who do a kick ass job I mgiht add!)

This is the first year I did not paddle in Alcan and basically just coached and took pictures. You really get to see the unsung heros of the event. the Volunteers! The dock staff was awesome and the poor souls who had the load and unload the boats, the repair guys and race results people really did an awesome job as well. (not to belittle all the other great people volunteering) I am sure they so not make TONS of money as  I am sure there area  a lot of hidden costrs we know nothing about (legal mumbo jumbo) as well.

All in all I am grateful for the event organizers and their efforts to make this the great event we all look forward and train for as well.

Now...back to posting pics...

[rightarm]

i think there are aspects of the festival that certainly could stand to improve and/or reach the same level they were at in years gone by.  however, showing disrespect to the volunteers is uncalled for, as usual the race was extremely well organized, the volunteers did a phenominal job, and i personally can't thank them enough as a paddler and as someone who coordinates large public events as part of my day job, I recognize the value of their hard work and dedication.  hell just this evening i was calling lots of people like those who helped out this weekend to help at a triathlon next weekend... events like these just don't happen without these people.
as to whether or not the festival itself is relevent and justifiable in a monetary sense, i suppose if you'd really like to know where the money goes and have influence over the decision making process, get involved with the ADBF board!  put your money where your mouth is. 
as for the comment about paddlers being the main attraction and people paying to see us and only us, lets face it, as awesome that would be, that's simply not the case.  lets not get into a huge debate about the profile of dragon boating here, but rather recognize it is still not and probably never will be a mainstream sport; regardless, many high profile sporting events still need their festival component in order to attract fans.  Example: the former Molson Indy; if you ever attended, you'll know that the 100,000+ that came out to that event each year were not just there for the car race.  Sort of a different example, but even the Grey Cup we had in our recent past wouldn't have been as big a hit without its festivities.
like i said, Alcan certainly isn't without room to improve, but then, few if any festivals are.  yet the numbers tell us it is still relevent and justifiable, so you are left with two choices in the end.  Either don't bother signing up and use your money for events you feel are more worthwhile, or sign up, participate, and even put in your time to help make the event better.

[seaboy]

Hey no need to call names, and I'm not diss'in the volunteers they do a great job, I just question why they need to be volunteers, they should be paid! I think there is a lot of money that just disappears and no one benefits from it. How much has the adbf given to the Chinese Head Tax redress movement? If the adbf is so righteous why don't they declare themselves a non-profit and show us the books? If we all ask them tough questions instead of defending them maybe we can get a little more accountability.

[paddleboy]

 Wheres the popcorn eating smiley when I need it ?

[Colossus]

Hey no need to call names, and I'm not diss'in the volunteers they do a great job, I just question why they need to be volunteers, they should be paid! I think there is a lot of money that just disappears and no one benefits from it. How much has the adbf given to the Chinese Head Tax redress movement? If the adbf is so righteous why don't they declare themselves a non-profit and show us the books? If we all ask them tough questions instead of defending them maybe we can get a little more accountability.

i didn't read any name calling...  name calling is done like so (in bold): you're a freaking retard with your narrow-minded point of view.  your qualm with the financial dealings of the ADBF are your own personal opinion and from the way things have read so far, are just tossed together opinions of the way things are (not how they actually are).  and we all know that opinions are exactly like a$$holes: everyone's got one, but none are exactly the same.

[gunghaggis]

It all comes down to how informed we are, and what can we do to help improve the situation?

The ADBF "IS" run by the NON-profit society named Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival.
And they give lots to the community.  Please witness "Kids' Day" and other special events.  The Gung Haggis team this year assisted in a community paddling program initiative that will continue to build and become more accessible to the community.  The festival has donated many "prizes" to many different non-profit events such as the Asian Heritage Month event titled "explorASIAN."

The bigger the event gets, the more expensive exponentially it gets to stage properly.

It is relatively inexpensive to stage a small regatta like the Lotus Sport's Club "Bill Alley" regatta.  There is only one chase boat.  They own two dragonboats, and rent another two.  The Club volunteers and organizes the event.

ADBF on the other hand is massively expensive to close down the seawall, rent Science World or Plaza of Nations, look after safety requirements 4 to 6 chase and media boats. etc etc etc...  Compare to other dragon boat races that use park sites. Consider what to do if it rains the entrie weekend in Vancouver? No audience, no profits.

The ADBF despite its problems (and I complain to the race director personally, as well as compliment him), is the largest Dragon Boat Festival in North America for good reason.  People come from all around the world to race here.   There is prestige and bragging rights to race and win medals here.  This is one of the better run festivals and one of the safest (Did you know that at least two people were sent to hospital this year? usually for heat stroke).

Yes... the festival is weighted to the higher calibre teams, with the every Comp division racing for medals (no consolation rounds), mens races, women's races and the Guts and Glory race.  A paddler on a top calibre team can technically win 2 medals + Guts and Glory + Seniors.  It's not much fun for beginner teams who are expected to lose all their races on Saturday.  Been there, done both.

But consider where dragon boat racing in North America would be without the ADBF?
ADBF in the 1980's and the early 1990's used to rent / loan their boats to other venue sites such as Victoria, San Francisco, Los Angeles etc as those venues developed.  Having the  ADBF brings the media and the sponsorship programs to the rest of dragon boating.  All the other races and festivals in Canada have come in its wake. 

Where would the awareness for breast cancer dragon boat teams and the impact they have made for physical exercise for breast cancer survivors be without the ADBF?

And the Vancouver teams and ADBF have helped to raise paddling techniques in other cities.  Vancouver coaches have led coaching workshops up and down the Pacific Coast, throughout BC and Western Canada, and elsewhere.

ADBF is one of the flagship dragon boat events in North America, not a rinky dink regatta.
Name another dragon boat festival in North America that has been featured on a postage stamp!

If you want to put on a first class event, you need to spend first class dollars, and you will need to bring in first class event management.  Otherwise you can go back to the little rinky dink events.

Also please consider that the ADBF was a pioneering festival when it began in 1987.  Founder and former race director and president Larry Chu, explained to me that it is considered a "mature festival" - and so must consistently reinvent itself in the community's eyes to remain vital and to continue to attract sponsorship dollars and media attention.  Much of what ADBF pioneered in "multicultural" entertainment is now being copied by every other so-called "multicultural" festival or event.  It is to ADBF's credit that they continue to emphasize Asian cultural aspects and have increased their partnership with explorASIAN (Vancouver Asian Heritage Month Society).

For people critical of ADBF and other events, please consider volunteering for them in some aspect, or for community development of the sport.  I have served both on the ADBF race committee, and also helped develop the Vancouver International Taiwanese Dragon Boat Race.  It takes a lot of energy to organize as well as dollars to make things happen.

If the festival is "smaller" this year... I think it is because a) ADBF is more focussed; and b) ADBF is limited by the decreased venue size; c) not spending excess money on a Saturday night concert event unrelated to dragonboats or Asian culture.