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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[WahinePaddler]

Gung Haggis Fat Choy dragon boat team is looking into organizing another Apres-Paddle party on Sunday July 10th, courtesy of our sponsor The Roxy.

San Francisco Dragon Warriors, and Portland based Wasabi Paddling Club sent me e-mails thanking us for the June 19th Apres-Paddling party at The Roxy, and said they all had a great time.  ...even though one paddler from Kai'iKai'Ka was removed from the club by the bouncers

Just to set the record straight...the Kai Ikaika member that was supposedly removed from the club was actually just an innocent bystander that happened to accidentally wander in between a couple who were having an argument. The bouncers heard the couple yelling at each other, saw the Kai Ikaika guy (who couldn't...they're huge!) and assumed that he was involed. The Kai Ikaika guy, who had no clue what was going on ended up with a concussion and a broken nose after the bouncer threw him into a wall! Then, when one of the Kai Ikaika women were trying to leave the club, the same bouncer wouldn't let her leave, and then proceeded to pick her up by the throat and throw her backwards threw the door. Charges are beeing filed with the police on this matter against both the bouncer and the nightclub.

On another topic... I encourage anyone who was at the party at the Roxy who paid with a credit card to check your statement. Approximately 15 people from my team have been overcharged by $80-$120 when compared to the credit card slips that they signed.

[WahinePaddler]

Just wanted to give everyone who may have been at the Gung Haggis Apres-Paddling Party at tht Roxy a heads up. If you paid your bill with a credit card, I encourage you to check your statement. About 15 people from my team were overcharged by $80-$120. They signed the credit cards slips for amounts like $15 or $20 but when they checked their statements this week, the Roxy overcharged them. Has anyone else had this problem? One person being overcharged could be chalked up as a mistake, but this many seems pretty deliberate.

[gunghaggis]

Dear Wahine Paddler

Sorry about any overcharges... we will look into it, and alert our sponsor contact.

Our intention of hosting the party, was simply to create a fun party in the absence of traditional paddlers' parties.  We had great feedback from SF Dragon Warriors, Wasabi and other teams, and will consider expanding the party to include a food discount at Doolin's Irish Pub for dinner.

Cheers

[gunghaggis]

Dear Wahine paddler,

Sorry to hear about Kai's unfortunate experience at The Roxy.  Please pass on our apologies to the team.  I will pass on this information to our sponsor contact, and we hope things will work out to everybody's satisfaction.

[WahinePaddler]

Thanks Gung Haggis.
We had a great time and our team's concensus was that it was the best paddler's party we had been to. We do not hold anyone except the Roxy accountable for the overcharges. Thanks again for inviting us, hopefully we will see you in Victoria!

[WahinePaddler]

Dear Wahine paddler,

Sorry to hear about Kai's unfortunate experience at The Roxy.  Please pass on our apologies to the team.  I will pass on this information to our sponsor contact, and we hope things will work out to everybody's satisfaction.

Thanks Gung Haggis!
We had a great time spending time with your team at the party and look forward to seeing you in Victoria!

[VanIslePaddleChica]

I am looking forward to seeing who all of you are at Victoria too!

I think it is going to be a great time.  We just completed the Nanaimo Paddlefest yesterday and it was great

And next is the Save-On-Foods festival.  It will be nice to see the Gorging Dragons again.

[DBWTim]

Admin Note: Sorry for the confusing thread. I've merged all the posts involving the Roxy incident into one.

WahinePaddler,
Thank you for letting us know about what happened. I hope everything works out for everyone involved. I'm pretty sure The Roxy will be losing some of their paddler clientele because of this.

[gunghaggis]

Dear Wahine Paddler

It was great to see John and other paddlers from your team that I have known over the years, and to have so many people from the Portland teams attending.

I have contacted our Roxy sponsor rep and she sent me this message:

I will look into this immediately. It will be handled. Please if you
could have them contact me on email.

For everybody else:
The Roxy has been very good to us this year, and wants to help host more parties for the Dragon Boat community in Vancouver.  I am sure the overcharge may have been a translation problem with American $.

Wahine Paddler wrote

We had a great time and our team's concensus was that it was the best paddler's party we had been to.

We will look forward to hosting more parties at The Roxy.  Next year we will expand the party, invite more people, start earlier, have more prizes, and add a food component.

[roxynightclub]

Hello, this is Peter, I am the General Manager of the Roxy.  I want to personally go over these accusations as they are misleading.  First off, we have strict policies regarding use of force - we know the law, it is our job.  Our doorman are not brutes who just beat people up - if that was the case we would not have been in business for the last 17 years, let alone have the reputation as Vancouvers best club for the same time period.  

The night in question was june 19, Sunday.
There were no "overchargings" - what happens is there is a 100.00 CDN authorization on every credit card we swipe.  We find that when people come up from the states that they go home and see an extra 80 dollars on their card and freak out - the authorization just has not come off yet.  The credit companies say it should be only 3 days - but we have seen 2 to 3 weeks as more of a standard until that charge comes back.

As far as "inocent patrons" being publicly beaten, this is also incorrect.  We have an elaborate surviellance system, and after spending accountless hours on putting together a minute by minute report of the events, here is what actually happened:  A unidentified female patron was dancing with another fellow while her boyfriend was watching, the couple tripped and fell accidentally.  The boyfriend then seemed to want his girl back by his side, but was not upset.  the male dancer friend was being agressive enough for 1 of our doorman to come over, at which point he diffused the situation and they went away, the dancing partner guy got his friend to then spear tackle the boyfriend, at which point the tackler hit his face into the wooden dancefloor - but until you really slowed down the tape - you would not see that.  the same door man grabbed the tackler by his belt and pulled him outside through our side bar doors and closed them.  He then grabbed the original dancer guy and also escorted him out of the bar with no incident.  The guy with the broken nose (the guy who tackled the boyfriend) was now outside, and some of his team mates went out to check on him - the next thing you see is up to 8 large guys going after one of our outside doormen, who a second before did not know there was an issue other than 2 people were thrown out and not allowed back in.  There was a large pony tailed man who lead the pack and kicked our doorman back in through the door and all hell broke loose.  At that moment, all our doors were shut (as it is our policy for the safety of our inside customers and staff - no one in - no one out, until it is safe to do so) with the exception of our 1 main door, which there were 3 large men at trying to beat up our doormen.  We did what we were legally supposed to do - we phoned the police, and kept pushing the kicking and punching group back outside - at no time did any of our staff kick or punch back.  This went on for several minutes and it was quite a scene outside by this time.  After 4 minutes - the doorman who recieved the kick to chest and was in the middle of the struggle came back in.  You can imagine the adrenaline going through him.  His mistake then was that he was supposed to remove himself from the situation to cool down, but he did not, he stayed on the inside of the doors.  At that moment a female patron was overly adamant about going outside as it was her friends that were in the fight, tempers flared on both ends and the girl was grabbed by the neck, and lead outside in a single sweeping side motion and without injury, not picked up and not thrown through the doors as mentioned. The camera does not lie.  The call made by the bouncer at that time was wrong, but not against the law, and considering the violence he just received by the group of men, was not thinking in a calm state of mind. The doorman in question has been an employee of the Roxy for over 11 years with out a single write up on his record.  I have suspended him for 2 weeks without pay as a result of breaking policy on removing yourself from a situation when you need a timeout.  Had he done that he would not have talked the girl in the first place.

I hope this clears up the brutal literary bashing we have recieved here. As far as legal charges, I believe that there are none, and after reviewing all the video, it would be us laying assault charges upon several members of the paddling team.  At this point I have decided to not pursue any legal action.  The members of the team that did start the fight - which total 6, are barred from any future visits to our club however.

If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please email us at:  [email protected]

thank you, Peter Martin.

[WahinePaddler]

After speaking to Mr. Martin, the General Manager of the Roxy last night (prior to his posting his message) many items were cleared up.

There were no "overchargings" - what happens is there is a 100.00 CDN authorization on every credit card we swipe.  We find that when people come up from the states that they go home and see an extra 80 dollars on their card and freak out - the authorization just has not come off yet.  The credit companies say it should be only 3 days - but we have seen 2 to 3 weeks as more of a standard until that charge comes back.

Mr. Martin did check into the supposed "overchargings" as did the banks of the affected paddlers, and it was determined that these overchargings were authorizations that had not been cleared as expected. As many others can imagine, seeing a charge for $80 on your credit card, in addition to the $11 charge that you signed off on would be more than a little alarming, and I believe that most people would question that charge.

During our telephone conversation, at my request, Mr. Martin went over with me "frame-by-frame" what his surveillance system showed. Most of what Mr. Martin has stated here is similar to what he discussed with me last night, however, there seems to be some inconsistencies in the numbers of "large guys" that were involved. These inconsistencies exist not only between his post and what he told me last night, but also within his own post. The reality of the situation is that only 3 of our large Samoan paddlers were even with us in Vancouver for Alcan.

What Mr. Martin fails to mention is that between the time that the first 2 people were thrown out, and when all hell apparently broke loose, our paddlers were requesting to speak with a manager. We were told repeatedly that there was no manager, supervisor, or even head bouncer on the premises. During this time, by his account of the surveillance video, there were no signs of physical aggression. Our paddlers were adamantly demanding to speak to someone in charge so that we might determine what had happened and why our friend's nose was broken, and in response, the bouncer was being verbally combative and aggressive. Mr. Martin informed me that several unbiased bystanders from a local security company that he knows well confirmed this. It is true that at that time, one of the paddlers, out of frustration and in response to his verbal aggression, kicked the bouncer. No punches were thrown and other than the one kick, there was hardly what one would call a "kicking and punching group."

Mr. Martin is correct that "the camera does not lie" and by his account, both in his post and to me on the telephone last night, he states that his cameras showed the bouncer grab the female paddler by the throat and push her out the door, it may have been "in a single sweeping side motion," but whatever, I cannot think of any reason that would make grabbing a woman by her throat and throwing her out a door acceptable, especially when she had not shown any signs of physical aggression.

Mr. Martin believes that "The call made by the bouncer at that time was wrong, but not against the law," but according to the Vancouver City Police and the RCMP, the bouncer's treatment of this female paddler does constitute battery, which is legally defined as "every willful, angry and violent, or negligent touching of another's person or clothes, or anything attached to his person or held by him." In addition, Mr. Martin seems to think that the bouncer's behaviour toward this woman was excusable "...considering the violence he just received by the group of men." This does not seem right to me.

During my conversation with Mr. Martin last night I explained that the entire scene could have been avoided if a manager or supervisor had been available or contacted when requested. He stated that he had been in the basement when all of this transpired and that the bouncers involved were wrong to have not contacted him at that time. In addition, the female paddler involved was willing to not file charges against the bouncer as long as she was satisfied that the nightclub would reprimand him appropriately for his actions. Mr. Martin explained that he has a "3 strikes your out policy" and that the bouncer would be suspended for 2-3 weeks. We were quite confident that Mr. Martin would deal with this matter in a fair manner.

Finally, Mr. Martin states, and the video agrees, that one member of the team kicked at the bouncer through the door. No punches were thrown and there was no other physical violence on the part of the team, therefore, how could "several members of the paddling team" be in a position to be charged with assault, which is legally defined as "an action which intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another." No other member of the team touched any of the staff of the Roxy.

Many of you know the paddlers with Kai Ikaika and I believe that you all know that we are a team based on Ohana, the Hawaiian spirit of family. I know that anyone who knows us is fully aware that we do not go around picking fights and causing violent scenes. Our guys may be big, what can I say, they grow them big on the Islands, but they are not the violent brutes that they are being made out to be. We are trying to sort out this matter with Mr. Martin and the Roxy in a fair and diplomatic manner. I discussed all of these issues with him personally last evening and felt that we had come to a civilized understanding and I had renewed faith in the Roxy and its management. I logged onto this topic today to post a message clearing up the misunderstading regarding the overcharges now that we had straightened out that issue. Instead I found an inflammatory post by Mr. Martin that seemed to contradict to some degree my conversation with him just last evening. We are not into mudslinging or "he said, she said" so we sincerely hope that, just as we contacted Mr. Martin to personally deal with this issue, he will contact us in the future with any issues he feels the need to discuss.

[roxynightclub]

Peter again here, I am not going to call you again TL as I do not see the point in arguing with you as you will never see it from my side and I am ok with that.  I will ask you to stop pubicly slamming my business.  if you have opinions that need to be addressed legally, then please do so.  Keep in mind that while you were inside there were many people fighting outside that you would have no idea about, but if they were not wearing team jerseys to identify themselves, how would we know if they were with you or not?  so lets just drop this whole stupid thing please. I feel I did my part and said my peace and so have you, I am willing to let it go if you are. No hard feelings, but the 5 main fellows in this are not welcome back to our club, and they do know who they are.  (the 2 that started it and the 3 outside)  we also have their pics for our own reminder.
Happy Canada Day everyone!!!!!

[Uldis]

 
The credit card thing is justifyable because there is so much credit card fraud and ripoffs out there and it's good to let people know about this.

I have a problem with dumb remarks such as naming some padder or some team had people booted out of a club.  That's between the club and those people and the cops now for that fact.  It's stupid for someone to have to name names or teams to instagate such an uproar of the events and no one should have to go though this.

You know, just to save face and not to have some idiot document remarks like this about the events of the Roxy ("..feedback was great from ###, but ###...."), maybe consider not being involved with events organized by this team or individual in the future.