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Dragon Boat Canada


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Canoe Kayak Canada

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[Ronnie]

The photo most recently posted (with only one buoy showing) is pretty much the view I had. (I got myself into a position as close as possible to what the timers would see.) The photo shows what I saw, which is that it was a good close race, and Extreme Reach won it by a seat or two. The buoy closest to the dock side would be to the left of the shot - it was 'way short of the true finish line and the far buoy was past the finish line.
...
The results may not have been precise to 1/100 of a second, but they were accurate. Congratulations everyone.

The fallacy of your statements will become apparent should you so kindly review previous postings with respect to finish line officials standing in different spots and viewing the finish line from different angles.  The fact is none of us can be 100% sure of the results because there is no proof.

And for the record, I saw the finish line tent early in the day, and they did, in fact, have video equipment there. I also saw a member of Lil Boat yelling at the finish line guy after the race when the video gear had already been taken down. That leads me to believe that there was video of the finish, but that the finish guy was confident enough in his decision to weather the storm of criticism.

This is interesting to hear that someone saw video equipment at the finish line tent because the finish line officials informed me that there was none, as they were unnecessary.  It is dangerous to make assumptions of the content of a conversation if you were not present.  As my uni prof said, when you assume, it makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me".

We have to remember this isn't exactly Olympic-calibre competition here - oh and by the way there is controversial officiating and bitter disappointment at that level too.

We are aware that this is not Olympic-calibre competition.  However, when there is controversy over officiating, the Olympic organizers/administrators will take steps to rectify the problem.  Do you recall what happened with Jamie Salé and David Pelletier or Sylvie Frechette?

Don't interpret this to mean that we want a medal.  That's not what we are after.  Again, what we want is fair and just officiating.  If that was not present at the Richmond Festival, then steps should be taken to ensure future events are officiated properly.  If this is done, I would be happy to attend the event again.

[chilipepper]

yes, Olympic level sports do sometimes see changes and improvements in their officiating, but, and this is a little off topic, these sports generally have one governing body that effects unilateral change.  Unfortunately dragonboat does not have this, as recent issues of Dragonboat World have made abundantly clear.  Although sweeping changes to the quality of the officiating, or at least finish line monitoring would be fantastic there is no way to enforce the majority of the changes that I think most of us would like to see.  I must agree, though, that any organization would be remiss if they did not address in some fashion any complaints that are raised.  But we aren't dealing with well-funded international governing bodies here, but rather poorly funded local event organizers who have little or no connection to policy making for DB on the international level.  Should we ask for change?  Absolutely.  Should we be ruthless in expecting expensive, expansive changes to be realized?  That's probably too much to ask, but small improvements each and every year are certainly within the realm of possibility.  On the whole I think we have very well run events here on the west coast.

[woodsman]

Well, I think I have changed my mind.  I guess the issue here is that in any race venue the results must be determined in a clear and unambiguous manner.  I would think it likely that this discussion, if Go Rowing hears about it, will lead to substantive changes at Richmond in the future.  To my knowledge, albeit somewhat limited to just a few years paddling, most festivals have at least adequate timing and officialling.

Still, I thought Richmond was a good, fun day.

Interesting discussion.

[Stewart]

Perhaps you have proved your point that a photo taken at a different angle will reflect a different result.  However, posting this photo does not assist in anyway to solving the root of the problem - the lack of finish line photos/recordings.  This photo is also not a finish line photo.  It only adds to the argument that the race organizers should be the ones responsible and accountable for providing accurate results.

I am in complete agreement that an official photo of the actual finish line would have saved everyone a lot of grief and prevented some hard feelings that have developed over this whole controversy.

if any paddler who won a medal that they knew they didn't rightfully win actually came forward and said, "i know i didn't win this medal fairly, so i don't want it", i'd have to give them huge kudos.  will anyone do that?  not sure.  i know i would.  but i've got an overly large conscious and like to earn what i get.

RIGHT ON COLOSSUS! I would not want to keep a medal if I knew my team didn't actually deserve it. I have never been involved in any such scenario and hope I never will either! PHEW!

Where I am a quite upset about this whole issue is where a few individuals, based upon viewing a photo which most if not all people realize is NOT of the finish line and is therefore very misleading, make statements that those teams that were awarded medals in this event did not deserve them and that they are 'tarnished' as a result. By all means you have the right to critize the lack of an official race line photo but to make such a comment and to call into question the integrity of teams that worked extremely hard is really uncalled for.

[BernMan]

I see you are a newbie and from the island too! I am a former islander myself. And by the way welcome to the forum! I hope you are here for more than the great weekend you and your teammates had in Richmond and to read what all is being said. It is not the racers we are talking about, just the organizers and race management people.

I just wanted to clear something up buddy. I said what I said (in the quotes that you so carefully clipped) that if it were to truly have happened to me that way then I would have not wanted the medal. In fact so did Colossus. Neither of us are saying that is what should be happening. But then again you must have just made your comment as soon as you read my and Colossus' comment without actually reading what we were complaining about in the first place. Or without actually reading the whole bunch of comments since then. I can see how steamed you must have been because you think we are whining or sour grapes or whatever you want to call it. You must be a stubborn dude like me or a dude who gets very emotional at the very slightest hint of disapproving comment against you or your loved one. FYI I wasn't even involved this past weekend so I am just an observer with comments to make because I am also a race official and want to make sure that things that happen else where don't happen where I am involved in future races. I guess you can call me a member of a competing race management company out there! LOL

Bottom line is we are just p***ed at the lack of evidence that apparently seemed to have been viewed quite differently by those involved. Please! I have said enough and don't wish to beat this dead horse anymore as it is now over done!

By the way please say hi to coach Chuck for me and any other former GD's that might be on your team. I think they should know who I am and if not then PM me and I will tell you I am and who my former team was for the past 3 years before joining my present team. Cheers!

[Colossus]

I said what I said that if it were to truly have happened to me that way then I would have not wanted the medal. In fact so did Colossus. Neither of us are saying that is what should be happening.

what he said.  

its amazing all the grief that can be brought up and out in a person via internet forums that would be virtually non-existant in person-to-person conversation.  this thread is slowly becoming as bad as some car forums where someone is flamed for claiming winning a race against a car that is "impossible" to beat.  (those can get hilarious)  nothing like people joining forums just to rant and rave about situations they weren't present for and then calling everyone out on it.
we're not even talking about the situation itself here.  we're talking about the circumstances; that there was no real way of knowing who won any of the races that were tight.  we had to go on 3 pairs of eyes all watching the finish line from different angles.  THAT is what this whole thread is about.  stop dragging who won what and "you're all sour grapes and sore losers" into it

[VanIslePaddleChica]

Hmmm, I have to laugh....

Although I was too ill to make it to Richmond, I have enjoyed reading some of the comments here regarding the situation out there.........

I do agree with Bernman that had my team won a medal that we had actually NOT won, I would want to turn it in and make sure it gets to its rightul owner.

So anyways seriously, who are these newbies with 1 or 2 posts that have just come in to criticize us or the forum??????
It is almost as if they are really someone else who does not want to share their opinion on their own names.  Seriously, how does one KNOW to come in here to bitch about a topic that the didn't even know was happening unless infact, they knew it was going on.......

If that made any sense at all................

[Colossus]

So anyways seriously, who are these newbies with 1 or 2 posts that have just come in to criticize us or the forum??????
It is almost as if they are really someone else who does not want to share their opinion on their own names.  Seriously, how does one KNOW to come in here to bitch about a topic that the didn't even know was happening unless infact, they knew it was going on.......

someone with their panties in a bunch, that went and got their friends' panties in a bunch and told them where to look/read.  its quite common on most forums where there is any sort of controversy (mainly car forums, like i mentioned previously)

[VanIslePaddleChica]

ah ohk....that makes sense...

But so stupid.........

[Colossus]

haha yes, very stupid....
you're from the island, maybe you can talk some sense into them?  

[VanIslePaddleChica]

lol, perhaps.....

the problem is though.....that I'm not good at putting sense into people....I try to do that to my 8 year old and it doesn't always work........

Hopefully they will lighten up....

[tiny]

For starters, who cares if someone is a "newbie" it makes no difference whether someone has been coming to this site for 10 years or just started coming here today.  No matter what, a person has a right to their own opinion without being made to feel like an idiot by childish replies and comments.  Being much younger then probably everyone on this site, it is appauling to see the lack of helpful critisms being said; all people are doing is whining about the results of the race and then denying it in later posts.  Bottom line is that, by insulting how a festival is preformed there is a chance of putting all of the festivals in danger of not being able to run anymore.  Sure, to some people, the finish line is always in an unknown spot where really the only people that can truly tell who wins are the judges themselves.  Even though there is a definite margain for error, that comes with anything throughout a person's life and in almost all sports.  There is no point spending aimless hours infront of a computer screen feeding off what a person has said and then replying with some immature comment often offending those of us who live on the island.  What difference does it make exactly? Who cares where we live!  If all of you are so concerned about how the festivals are run and how they are judged, you shouldn't be saying that in here, you should be stating your comments to someone who actually cares and will listen to your crap and maybe someday do something to try and better it.  Dragonboating is a fun sport, and many people join because they enjoy it.  If you don't like how a festival is run, then don't come anymore.  Basically all you are saying is, is that you do not like how the winners of the race are determined and constantly repeating that argument.  None of this is making a difference to the organizations, or to the festivals.  Nobody's opinion is wrong, and it's appauling to see how you react to eachother's statements.  Being only seventeen myself it is quite sad to sit here and read all these comments said by adults.  Really, most of you guys need to grow up and realize that who cares who wins or loses or who makes mistakes and such, the point is although the sport is competitive, there is alot of sportmanship that also comes with the sport.  And for all the talk about us islanders being so competitive, it seems to be all you mainlanders that have the biggest problems with the festivals and are maybe just getting discouraged because you dont want to lose to us..  In the end, many of you just need to pull that stick out of your ass, and deal with it, because what's done is done.

[Sterling]

sigh... another poster who clearly does not understand what this whole thread is about..    pretty much your whole post reflects how uninformed you may be and how contradicting you are to yourself but its late and if you dont get it by now, you never will..

[tiger]

Being only seventeen myself it is quite sad to sit here and read all these comments said by adults.

No way you are seventeen.  Why you may ask?  You have formed a proper sentence and no spelling mistakes, that doesn't happen now a days with kids          

Seriously, though, the only point to be made by anyone is that paddlers are demanding consistency in things that a festival can control.  A festival can control the running of a race but they cannot control the forces of nature so if somebody complains about nature then they are whiners.  In this case, people are complaining about something a festival can control, borrow a video camera and a tripod and set it up at the finish line, cost is nothing but racing will be priceless then   .

BTW, not sure at seventeen if math is part of your abilities (languages seems to be though) figure out the amount the festival pulled in and then subtract what expenses they have.  I have and I would estimate they made about $6K-7K so they should be able to afford a video camera (even if they had to buy one).

As a paddler, all I want from a festival is:

1.  A fair course which means measured so that all lanes are the same length
2.  A proper starting line and starts
3.  A proper finish that eliminates any questions from teams
4.  Proper officiating to eliminate what teams may attempt on the and off the race course (washriding, set rosters, etc).
5.  Proper marshalling and a pleasant staff, if it is paid or volunteer the staff needs to work with the teams.

If you look at it that way, Richmond falls down on item #3 big time, I know item 4 was weak at Richmond (there was double rostering, etc), they should have wrist bands or something, item #2 started off bad but improved, item #1 this may have been okay but again based on the other points I would only give a 50-50 chance of it being a fair course.

So overall, Richmond needs to do some work as the other festivals are all spending a lot of time making sure what they control is done properly.

[BernMan]

sigh... another poster who clearly does not understand what this whole thread is about..    pretty much your whole post reflects how uninformed you may be and how contradicting you are to yourself but its late and if you dont get it by now, you never will..

Ditto!