Dragon Boat West

Have you seen the Vancouver Sun today?? The festival event has gotten smaller, and the entertainment is not as varied. With the registration fees as high as $2000 per team with only 4 races.

 Wonder where the fees are going too???

As a paddler since 1989 you sure do not get the bang for your buck.   :shock:

Although, I do not know all the finances for this festival, please consider the following:

Where do the boats come from? Who pays for them? Some of the are borrowed, but some of them belong to ALCAN. These boats have a life span too. Repairs to these boats, heads/tails/drums.....
The Paddles and life jackets (which have a limited life span).
Hiring a professional water official group to run the races....
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The rental of tents, stage, location, race officials and other supplies?
The docks.
Gas for the water official boats.
Two full days of racing
Paddlers party at the end
Entertainment
Garbage Removal
Porta potties
Insurance...
Food for all the countless and dedicated volunteers
Profit, so that the money can help fund the following years.

Things are getting expensive in Vancouver.....

If you haven't looked around, buying a house, renting a car, transportation costs are all going up.  I think it's more prudent to ask this question.."Why can't I buy a house in Vancouver for under $500,000K?  I've lived here for over 30 years. Same logic.

Ultimately, the festival funds are not stretching as far as before. The festival will need to become more creative in offering a superb class event and try to continue this year after year.

I know that some other festivals offer similar festivals and have lower entrance fees. Please remember, some of them are solely sponsered by their local tourism board. They love when racers come to their town...because we bring so much revenue to their city.

If we want a world class event, coupled with competitive racing, we all need to understand how much it cost to run a festival....By asking the question, "What do we get for $2000", is valid...but truly, this is not a cheap festival to run. If you have any suggestions, please join the board and help find ways to bring the entrance cost down and keep this festival as big as it is.

There is an easier way to bring the entrance fee down...cut out all the FRILLS ..just treat it like the ALCAN Regatta....if that's what you want....this type of setup will be way cheaper...no sponsors, no tents, no stage, no food, no media coverage, no frills...just racing....

My real point is, until you really know the overall overhead of this festival, it's too easy to say, "it cost too much".

Secondly, do you think someone is getting "rich" on our $2K entrance fee for each team? If so, I want to know who it is....

Me thinks puppy is sick and tired of hearing the same question over and over again, eh puppy?  :P

But you know oldtimer is not alone in asking that question and won't be the last one either! However if anything I think the cost for teams to join has been relatively stable. I seem to recall in my very first years of paddling, which is 1992, I think it was just in the low teens in terms of hundreds. So now with early bird registration it is in the upper teens in terms of hundreds to race. So basically plan it early and pay it early and your costs should be reduce somewhat.

But very good point puppy.... there are lots of costs involved to run such a huge event over 2 full days.

Good luck to you and your teams pup!

some of the PFDs should definately be retired....    and perhaps a small handfull of LONG paddles for those who need more than a 49 who don't have their own.

And who can forget the $$ of the Geminis! (sorry, Maybe this should be in the Rant Post!)
IMHO I think Alcan is a great festival. Well run, good racing, and will probably continue to be the proving grounds for western teams for a while
Some say its too early but any later and there will be too much overlap with other festivals.

Besides, what would ALL Puppy's teams have to do if there was no race!

Most people that help out are volunteers. I think the lady at the top gets paid big $$$ !!!, also the person that started it all here in Vancouver.

With the Sponsors ie: Cathy Pacific. They also paid to advertize their company.. look around this weekend with all the companies that will have banners all throughout the festival. Your telling me that these companies did not paid a cent to put a banner up???

Agreed, there are some key sponsors, but not all of them give money....IE the Army....this group has been so dedicated and supportive in supplying the tents and their time....Nester's have helped out with supplying food to some of our volunteers...etc....

Before we start making making assumptions:

why not ask Ann Phelps directly:

Ann Phelps - General Manager
T: (604) 688-8300
E: [email protected]


Oldtimer, I don't disagree that the entrance fee is high (especially for a lot of new teams) and it's tough getting sponsorship for our own teams...but please remember, running this type of festival, is not cheap and I would not be surprised if it gets more expensive over the years....

I know that we will loose some of the novice/recreational teams that can't afford it....but if you have any suggestions on how to bring down the overall cost and still run a similar competitive race...please tell Ann and the board.

 

Yeah, let's not bring up those Gemini's...having nightmares again.....

Actually, I suspect a lot of the boat and equipment maintenance is paid for out of revenues from DragonZone which is part of the CIDBFS.  There are what, forty or fifty teams practicing out of DragonZone, each paying up wards of $2,000 for a years worth of practices.  So, in a sense, teams practicing out of DragonZone are subsidizing the Alcan festival.

Not to take away from what the festival does.  They put on a great event and as puppy noted, things are getting more expensive every year.  It probably doesn't help that the festival site is being squeezed by all of the construction going on either.

StraightLine.

Squeezed out, is an understatement, Straightline...On the north side, we have Cirque and on the south side, construction for 2010 olympic village...

It will be interesting to see what happens to our race site, next year.

I would love to see Dragon Zone and Alcan have a permament home (with showers, lockers, boat shed, different boats, etc) @ False creek...that would be most ideal....

PS are you wearing your beanie cap? this weekend....

Thanks Bern...hope you don't loose another bet to your team.....See you on sat/sun

I think the high price of admission is for people to watch the guy at the bridge direct traffic for the Guts and Glory race....
Fast and the Furious - False Creek Drift.....Woof!

FYI.  approx 170 teams x's $2000= $340 000, plus men's and women's teams.  That's a whole lot of $$$$$$.  I don't think it costs $340 000 to put on the Alcan festival with all the volunteered items and staff.  Is there not an annual budget released on this. 

 I was going to put that in Secret Weapon, you beat me to it. Don't forget the GST & PST. I agree with you  Secret Weapon, also each Sponsors like Cathy Pacific gives about $50,000-75,000 for having their name all over the site and in the programs.  Look at the passes for the racers this year. Paper!!! They should be laminated. When they get wet and it will they will rip.

This Alcan Festival is over $$$, no wonder the smaller festivals are having so much fun. Like Victoria, Kelowna (which Alcan festival is running it),the best medals are at the Tawainese festival on Sept. long weekend.
 
 

Yep Alcan is not the cheapest festival but they did drop the fees this year by $100 (that is what we were told anyways).  Again it appears they are trying to listen to the paddlers (finally), still expensive but you can always go to Richmond and have 3 blind people timing for you and nothing to do except watch the grass grow, probably why it is only $500.

If you actually look the racing side is the same size this year as last, I counted the number of teams, yeah slow day at work.

At TW festival last year, the finish line drifted so bad the teams on the outer lanes had to paddles an extra half boat length.  And they post-poned most the Sat afternoon races till the next day due to poor planning.

I have not seen such things happen at Alcan. 

You're not the only who has to paddle early as well, all the junior teams have had to wake up at around 6 and get down to the site at 7 so they can marshall at 8.

I would tell you some don't pay a cent!

Having been involved with a supplier over the years they are often asked to reduce charged rates with an offer to post the banners. Win - win situation, the festival pays a reduced rate saving some money and the supplier gets some "free" advertisement. Its business...

no sponsors (who cares, you think we should pay more for the privilege of having sponsor? I thought it was the other way around!)

no tents (who cares they are too small anyway, I'd rather just have a spot for us to pitch our own tent, and I'm pretty sure those military tents don't cost adbf anything anyway)

no stage (what paddler cares, we are too busy racing to see the entertainment and I don't need a stage to get my medal)

no food??? (what food, you mean the greasy overpriced crap that we have to use dragon dollars to buy! Or is the festival providing some sort of free food that I missed out on?)

no media coverage (again who cares it doesn't benefit us anyways just sells tickets so adbf makes more money)

frills? I never saw them handing out frills did you get your frills? Oh well, I look better in a feather boa anyway.

Sure its easy to say "it costs too much" it's also easy to say that things are expensive, but what really matters is what do these things cost adbf? How much do they spend on team tents? I don't think they cost adbf anything. How much do they spend on the venue? I know it used to cost a lot at Plaza of Nations. But do they pay Science world or the City? Boats, paddles, pdfs cost money, but how much does the adbf spend on them? I think most of this cost is covered by local clubs. I realize they are not non-profit so they don't have to release thier financials, but that doesn't mean we can't pose the question. Does anybody have any hard figures on what the festival actually spends on various things?

I think it is very obvious that someone is getting rich on the $2k entrance fee especially when you factor in all the other revenue streams. Just my two dragon cents.

I would imagine that the porta-potties cost quite a bit to rent, and that the adbf pays dz for use of their docks, etc, as well as all the motor boats used. Marketing the event, fencing the grounds and then paying someone (the city?) to clean up the grounds afterwards, all probably cost a lot too.
As far as the entertainment goes, IMHO they had a decent variety of performers ranging from filipino dancers to east indian dancers/singers to taiko drumming, and Paula Toledo who is a pop/folk singer. 

I would imagine that the porta-potties cost quite a bit to rent, and that the adbf pays dz for use of their docks, etc, as well as all the motor boats used.

Dragon Zone is run by ADBF. Come on who are you kidding. All  the motor boats are owned by ADBF and Dragon Zone.

At the most, the porta-potties should be in the tens not hundreds of thousands in cost, I'm guessing.

Please remember that it is named Alcan Dragon Boat FESTIVAL, and not Alcan Dragon Boat RACES.

The Festival was founded to promote multicultural activities and understanding. In 1987, when the Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival Society was founded, racial tolerance was not as high as it was now.  There was a backlash against the increased immigration from Hong Kong, as many immigrants were unsure what would happen when Hong Kong was reunited with China.

Helping to prevent racism, and develop cultural harmony takes $S$.
Witness the present Chinese Head Tax redress movement, as well as all the Canadian Heritage initiatives.  We all want to ensure that extreme racism such as the internment of Japanese Canadians or the Chinese Exclusion Act, NEVER happens again.

Dragon Boat Festivals across North America were primarily founded by Chinese community organizations wishing to raise the profile of chinese culture, history, and community contributions, and also by non-Chinese community organizations to help develop multicultural activities for their cities and communities.

From 1987 to 1992, I used to attend the ADBF just for the cultural entertainment, ignoring the races.

More often today, Dragon boat racing has also grown into a business, and a sport community... no longer just a festival of "community paddling."  Witness many organizations using dragon boat races to raise funds for their teams or communities now.  Witness the proliferation of "regattas", regional "race-offs", and the developement of IDBF sanctioned events.

So what is more important in the big picture?

Having more cheaper regattas for the many growing teams?
Having large cultural festivals that promote cultural diversity?
Having strictly race events for the development of the sport?
Can we have both or all?

1) Dragon Zone is run by ADBF
Dragon Zone exists because they have an elite team who makes the race part of the festival happen. They are the ones who setup YOUR race course while we, the paddlers are enjoying a soft mattress...warm blankets/bodies etc.

2) How many chase boats were there?
what’s the rate km/tank?
I wonder what’s in those tanks?
could it be JUST fuel that you can pump from a near by gas station or a mixed combination?[i'm pretty sure the ones who have used those zodiacs know]
how much would each tank cost? times that by how many chase boats times that by how many times they need to be refueled

every year someone finds the need to complain about the festival[every festival] AFTER they've enjoyed it.

3) STOP guessing! If your peeve is cost of admission/utilities/equipment - take economics[class] it'll answer your questions; particularly the topic of "supply and demand". Start researching find your facts before you start accusations. Find out the rates at which the portapodies are rented at. Find the cost of removal of fecal/urinal matter - my advice use "credible sources"

4) last but not least - Dragon boat isn't ONLY for us. Take it from a Non paddlers/family/friends/tourist persective ~ do you see what they see?! hopefully not JUST dragon boat races. Humans have a need to feel a sense of pleasure/enjoyment...however not everyone has the same interest due to the variation of personalities. 

other than that

enjoy what has been offered. it's not only about you!

So what your saying is we the paddlers are subsidizing the fesitval. When really we are the headline entertainment, so they should pay us.

Tell you what, why don't we just have the races and the festival at the same time but keep them financially seperate, we cover all the costs associated with racing all the other revenue streams go to the festival. We don't get a free pass into the festival so if we want to partake we have to buy a ticket like everyone else all we get for our entrance fee is races.

Seaboy,

I assisted in the race course set-up, without the Army guys it probly would have taken days.  I for one praise them for their tent.  Without the organized tents the 140+ teams would just all be fighting for space.  Also for those who can't afford them were probly glad it was there when it was pouring.

Media coverage and sponsors help promote the sport, which adds competition.  The stage was compliment for those who medalled, you sound as if you're  bitter that you didn't get to go on?

To think the volunteers put in time and effort for the likes of you.. :BS:

You tell'em luke!

consider the cost in to organize this event as I am sure there are paid staff for that.
Cost of Insurance is probably pretty high
Permits for everything
hiring waters edge to run the event (who do a kick ass job I mgiht add!)

This is the first year I did not paddle in Alcan and basically just coached and took pictures. You really get to see the unsung heros of the event. the Volunteers! The dock staff was awesome and the poor souls who had the load and unload the boats, the repair guys and race results people really did an awesome job as well. (not to belittle all the other great people volunteering) I am sure they so not make TONS of money as  I am sure there area  a lot of hidden costrs we know nothing about (legal mumbo jumbo) as well.

All in all I am grateful for the event organizers and their efforts to make this the great event we all look forward and train for as well.

Now...back to posting pics...

i think there are aspects of the festival that certainly could stand to improve and/or reach the same level they were at in years gone by.  however, showing disrespect to the volunteers is uncalled for, as usual the race was extremely well organized, the volunteers did a phenominal job, and i personally can't thank them enough as a paddler and as someone who coordinates large public events as part of my day job, I recognize the value of their hard work and dedication.  hell just this evening i was calling lots of people like those who helped out this weekend to help at a triathlon next weekend... events like these just don't happen without these people.
as to whether or not the festival itself is relevent and justifiable in a monetary sense, i suppose if you'd really like to know where the money goes and have influence over the decision making process, get involved with the ADBF board!  put your money where your mouth is. 
as for the comment about paddlers being the main attraction and people paying to see us and only us, lets face it, as awesome that would be, that's simply not the case.  lets not get into a huge debate about the profile of dragon boating here, but rather recognize it is still not and probably never will be a mainstream sport; regardless, many high profile sporting events still need their festival component in order to attract fans.  Example: the former Molson Indy; if you ever attended, you'll know that the 100,000+ that came out to that event each year were not just there for the car race.  Sort of a different example, but even the Grey Cup we had in our recent past wouldn't have been as big a hit without its festivities.
like i said, Alcan certainly isn't without room to improve, but then, few if any festivals are.  yet the numbers tell us it is still relevent and justifiable, so you are left with two choices in the end.  Either don't bother signing up and use your money for events you feel are more worthwhile, or sign up, participate, and even put in your time to help make the event better.

Hey no need to call names, and I'm not diss'in the volunteers they do a great job, I just question why they need to be volunteers, they should be paid! I think there is a lot of money that just disappears and no one benefits from it. How much has the adbf given to the Chinese Head Tax redress movement? If the adbf is so righteous why don't they declare themselves a non-profit and show us the books? If we all ask them tough questions instead of defending them maybe we can get a little more accountability.

 Wheres the popcorn eating smiley when I need it ?

i didn't read any name calling...  name calling is done like so (in bold): you're a freaking retard with your narrow-minded point of view.  your qualm with the financial dealings of the ADBF are your own personal opinion and from the way things have read so far, are just tossed together opinions of the way things are (not how they actually are).  and we all know that opinions are exactly like a$$holes: everyone's got one, but none are exactly the same.

It all comes down to how informed we are, and what can we do to help improve the situation?

The ADBF "IS" run by the NON-profit society named Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival.
And they give lots to the community.  Please witness "Kids' Day" and other special events.  The Gung Haggis team this year assisted in a community paddling program initiative that will continue to build and become more accessible to the community.  The festival has donated many "prizes" to many different non-profit events such as the Asian Heritage Month event titled "explorASIAN."

The bigger the event gets, the more expensive exponentially it gets to stage properly.

It is relatively inexpensive to stage a small regatta like the Lotus Sport's Club "Bill Alley" regatta.  There is only one chase boat.  They own two dragonboats, and rent another two.  The Club volunteers and organizes the event.

ADBF on the other hand is massively expensive to close down the seawall, rent Science World or Plaza of Nations, look after safety requirements 4 to 6 chase and media boats. etc etc etc...  Compare to other dragon boat races that use park sites. Consider what to do if it rains the entrie weekend in Vancouver? No audience, no profits.

The ADBF despite its problems (and I complain to the race director personally, as well as compliment him), is the largest Dragon Boat Festival in North America for good reason.  People come from all around the world to race here.   There is prestige and bragging rights to race and win medals here.  This is one of the better run festivals and one of the safest (Did you know that at least two people were sent to hospital this year? usually for heat stroke).

Yes... the festival is weighted to the higher calibre teams, with the every Comp division racing for medals (no consolation rounds), mens races, women's races and the Guts and Glory race.  A paddler on a top calibre team can technically win 2 medals + Guts and Glory + Seniors.  It's not much fun for beginner teams who are expected to lose all their races on Saturday.  Been there, done both.

But consider where dragon boat racing in North America would be without the ADBF?
ADBF in the 1980's and the early 1990's used to rent / loan their boats to other venue sites such as Victoria, San Francisco, Los Angeles etc as those venues developed.  Having the  ADBF brings the media and the sponsorship programs to the rest of dragon boating.  All the other races and festivals in Canada have come in its wake. 

Where would the awareness for breast cancer dragon boat teams and the impact they have made for physical exercise for breast cancer survivors be without the ADBF?

And the Vancouver teams and ADBF have helped to raise paddling techniques in other cities.  Vancouver coaches have led coaching workshops up and down the Pacific Coast, throughout BC and Western Canada, and elsewhere.

ADBF is one of the flagship dragon boat events in North America, not a rinky dink regatta.
Name another dragon boat festival in North America that has been featured on a postage stamp!

If you want to put on a first class event, you need to spend first class dollars, and you will need to bring in first class event management.  Otherwise you can go back to the little rinky dink events.

Also please consider that the ADBF was a pioneering festival when it began in 1987.  Founder and former race director and president Larry Chu, explained to me that it is considered a "mature festival" - and so must consistently reinvent itself in the community's eyes to remain vital and to continue to attract sponsorship dollars and media attention.  Much of what ADBF pioneered in "multicultural" entertainment is now being copied by every other so-called "multicultural" festival or event.  It is to ADBF's credit that they continue to emphasize Asian cultural aspects and have increased their partnership with explorASIAN (Vancouver Asian Heritage Month Society).

For people critical of ADBF and other events, please consider volunteering for them in some aspect, or for community development of the sport.  I have served both on the ADBF race committee, and also helped develop the Vancouver International Taiwanese Dragon Boat Race.  It takes a lot of energy to organize as well as dollars to make things happen.

If the festival is "smaller" this year... I think it is because a) ADBF is more focussed; and b) ADBF is limited by the decreased venue size; c) not spending excess money on a Saturday night concert event unrelated to dragonboats or Asian culture.

Amen to what gunghaggis said. On another note:

1) There are about 500 volunteers that help make ADBF happen. (Source - the President of the ADBF) Try paying all of them some money with limited funding... good luck!
2) It costs a lot of money and volunteered effort to put on and manage an event like this. Kudos and thank you to everyone involved...(Research the Sea Vancouver Festival - they went under... to the tune of $1.2 million dollars. On the other hand, Alcan's been running strong for over a decade)
3) If you're really interested in researching their financials, I believe you can approach the BC government and ask to see their balance sheets. I believe all registered societies have to make this publicly known to their members if they ask...I think.
4) Seaboy - I'd suggest that if you're really concerned about making Alcan better, you should get involved in planning it. I'm sure the organizers would welcome your help and insights. Talk is easy, taking action to change the situation is hard.

Very interesting! I had always understood that adbf was not a society but if they are then I will be able to get thier financials and I will share with all of you! I don't know why there is no info about there status as a society or their financials on their website, at least not that I could find.

I don't have to become a politician to question and bring about change in the government, likewise with adbf.

Back to the key question here, Why is ADBF smaller this year?  I think the simple answer is because of it's success.  

Now hold on a moment, I know this may sound like a hypocritical statement but hear me out.  Take a step back and look at the bigger picture.  

The success of Alcan and the popularity of the sport has spawned new festivals in new venues; two significant BC festivals last year alone (off the top of my head).  By creating choice and by DB associations creating their own venues additional choices have developed.  Where 5 years ago you basically had Alcan, Victoria, and Kelowna to choose from... you can now add Harrison, Nanaimo, Vernon, Richmond, and I'm sure a raft of other venues outside of BC that people can go to.  It was the case for many years that Alcan was the only show in town... but now because of it's success it has created competition.  This provides choice and choice created a place for other dollars to flow so of course you will see the number of teams participating drop.  I'm guessing many of the team's from the interior are choosing to go to Vernon rather than Alcan, I noticed some of the Valley Teams missing which you can be they are going to make showing in Harrison.  I'm also guessing that you can expect to see that a number of the Canadian teams with traveling budgets will likely end up in Toronto this year to check out the new site for the Worlds.  (Not that padding in Lake Ontario is any more appealing than False Creek)  

Also given the current space crunch being experienced at the SE end of the creek I honestly think that a smaller festival was due.

Beyond the Economics of choice for BC teams and for that mater everyone in the world, there is also the economics and convenience of traveling to this country, specifically Vancouver, right now... the Dollar is flirting with $0.90 US and it is a pain in the behind to get across the border for US teams heck many of them likely thought they needed a passport and maybe a Visa to get into the country now... and moving forward we may see fewer and fewer US teams because of the tightening of border security.  As for the travelling teams I don't know that KLM had any real problems but I'm guessing that have good travel agents... but I'm guessing from the variety of uniforms and padding styles the Youth Rowing Society may have had a few documentation issues.  

So I think if we are to get a true perspective of what really caused the number of teams to fall off this year we can't put it down to the cost of the festival and how the cynics among us (I normally being one) automatically assume that it is the cost of the festival and that they wouldn't have these problems if they didn't squander their money or frivolous things like toilet paper for the blue booths... Heck I'm surprised that nobody observed the cost cutting efforts by only having hand sanitizer in half the potties if that...

Anyway... back on topic... to assume that the festival society has lots of money to spend or that it should be spent more wisely... put up or shut up... get on the board and then move to open and public financial disclosure and then lets see how you feel about it when people start complaining about your honorarium.  Also them maybe you can explain how to maintain the viability of the society when as far as I understand it took a bath at Sea Vancouver last year.  (I know I know undermining my argument about value) So if the festival cost me $100 this year rather than $90 it did last year to ensure the continued operation of an event that I may not love but I do feel is a great training and proving ground for those who want to play.  


I admit not my favorite festival likely not even in the top 3 but still something I think adds to the sport and that I will continue to participate in to learn and improve how I race how I paddle and how I train to better my self and my team against the top tier in our corner of the world.  You have the same choice to make... if you have a problem with the festival or just don't like the dollars involved then accept that and find a festival that meets your specific needs.

The choice is your's!  Now release the dogs... and let the feed back begin.

PaddleFunk makes a great case that ADBF is smaller this year because of it's "success."

Yes, ADBF has played a key role in the development of dragon boat festivals, and also the sport.
1996 saw the first World Club Crew Championship hosted in North America at ADBF.  There used to be lots of international teams coming to ADBF in the 1980's and 1990's... because... if they didn't go to Hong Kong, where would they go?  Vancouver !

Now top teams in search of competition go to the IDBF Championships, World Club Crew Championships, as well as their national or regional race-offs.  Teams such as Tacoma DBA, Bay Area Dragons, and Dieselfish chose not to come to ADBF this year.  TDBA is heading to both Tampa for the US Nationals, and to Toronto for the WCC.

Only two international teams came to ADBF this year.  One Dutch team (KLM), and one Filipino teeam (PYROS) - which unfortunately came with substantially less than 20 paddlers, no drummer and no steers - due to visa challenges and last minute airline challenges.  Gung Haggis hosted them, and we were asked by ADBF to help them find paddlers.  Ack!

More DB festivals and regattas lend way to the development of a dragon boat circuit or grand prix cup for: BC? Western Canada? Pacific Northwest?  It's been discussed by Dragon Boat Canada types and race organizers for more than a few years.

Ironically, the Alcan DBF must look at "Sustainability" as a festival and as a race.  How does the ADBF help sustain the development of new teams if:
1) the price is out of reach for many first time teams
2) ADBF has eliminated the 4 mandatory practices formerly included with registration price
3) All low performance teams are expected to LOSE all their races on Saturday?  That's no fun!

I say bring back the Competitive, Recreation and Novice divsions from pre-2002.
ADBF must re-think, re-cycle, and re-use, to be sustainable and viable in both our dragonboat and festival communities.

But then again, what makes ADBF special?  High quality teams and high quality racing!  Where else do you get 9 boats charging down the course with 5 of them all within a single second.  Where else do you get 19 boats on a 2 km course all at the same time.  And are you prepared if there is an accident?  That takes $$ and good management.

TDBA pioneered the concept of "dragon boat barrel racing", we brought it to the Vancouver Taiwanese DBR, and Fraser Valley DBA incorporated it into their race on Harrioson Lake.  Vancouver Taiwanese Race is unique with flag grabbing boats, same ones used up and down the Mississippi, but lighter and faster than the Portland-Kaoshung boats.  Calgary people keep inviting me up, but I would rather vacation in San Francisco for the same $$. Sorry Calgary...

This is strictly aimed at the festival organizers and not at the wonderful volunteers who made this weekend memorable.

I think ADBF is losing market share because other festivals have been offering a better package.

Let's do a case study of the Toronto DB festival. Compare it to ADBF in your mind as we go along.

- Medals in every division - there are NO consolation rounds.
- Free admission for spectators
- 180 teams
- Grand Champion gets airfare to compete in Asia
- >10 specialty championships
- 6 teams per final: This means that 3 out of 6 teams medal! Not counting specialty races, 50% of entrants will walk away with hardware!

All this at entry fees comparable to ADBF:
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(A)Corporate teams (Premier mixed, women): $2,500 + GST
(B)Community teams (Premier mixed, women): $1,800 + GST
(C)University teams (Premier mixed, women):  $1,500 + GST
(D)Junior mixed teams: $750 + GST
The team entry fees include 5 standard practice sessions.

If an international mixed team could pay about the same price to go to Vancouver or Toronto, and the races are only one week apart. Which race would they enter?
The one where they have a >50% chance of coming home with something to show their sponsors?
Or the one where they have a 20% chance of winning something depending on tidal currents (lane positioning), whether they make a "real" final and while competing for a top 3 finish against 8 other teams instead of 5?

I don't understand how TO does it.

But I have to give some kudos to ADBF this year:
--------------------------------------------
1. Races were the most fair that I have ever seen at ADBF. Bravo!
2. Races were more on time than in the past.
3. Racers village was a tight fit, but it also made it a more social environment than in the past.

And contrary to what some are seeming to suggest, it takes more than an empty parking lot and some portable toilets to attract that kind of competition.  That would be an entirely different sort of competition  :shock:

In the end, it's hardly a surprise that Alcan is an expensive festival.  Ultimately it's a team decision whether or not to enter - if you don't like, then don't go.  It's true that you could probably go to 2 or 3 other races for the price.  But then you probably won't be a part of the same kind of competition.  Choose wisely, have fun  :dance:

hey gung haggis,

i agree whole heartedly with your messages on this thread.  i do chuckle that this price issue comes up every year.

for 5 or 6 years (i really can't remember) i served as one of the race directors for the California Dragon Boat Association.  and the end of the season shabang was always more expensive than you would think.  details aside you will just have to believe that.

the cool thing is that down here in San Fran we are a bit smaller so we hope that we deliver a lot for the $$.  we don't have 8-9 boat heats (yet) and we only have just shy of 100 mixed teams in attendence.  so we get to put in more races for everybody, and try to provide value to all the teams.  the visiting teams from out of the area get the best deal with the great hotel deals, and included transportation to the race site.

but i'll tell you it takes some mad crazy effort to get it all together.  and i'm sure it is no different for my friends that run Alcan.  it's all done because a group of folks care a lot to see it get done.  i really doubt anybody is getting rich. 

i guess its a free market, if you don't think it's worth the $$ then i suppose you skip it.  from what i can see at 170 teams, lots of folks like it. 

ken\

Hey Ken of Dieselfish  (my favorite SF area team)
& everybody else.

Why is ADBF smaller this year? 
Why does SF race deliver more bang for the buck?

Because the paddlers care more in SF... SF does a very good job of promoting their races.  Dragon Warriors were up in Vancouver, with friendly smiles and inviting people down to SF.  Dragon Warriors (my 2nd favorite SF team... who will become #1 when I win a medal with them), have incredible people as the key organizers for the SF Race.

When I was last in SF, it was paddlers who were volunteering time during the races to help perform dock crew - not high school students trying to fill up their community service requirements.  For paddlers to be doing dock duty, it really means something.  The paddlers appreciate it more.  I know that the paddlers also respect and listen to me more when I have done dock duty at ADBF.

San Francisco has the BEST skit night party... The out of town teams compete against each other, and real community is developed.  Vancouver is sucking big time in this department.  Out of town teams come to Vancouver and are left to their own - okay... we try to find them "hosts" that can help them plan activities.  Years ago, ADBF hosted a bbq at Mavericks and a social on the Friday night, when a lot of teams were still arriving.

Another goodl reason the out of town teams are no longer coming to ADBF:  No more good parties!  The Plaza of Nations party was legendary.   We need more paddlers and teams in Vancouver who are willing to organize GREAT parties for the out of town teams, and to make ADBF work better.  And that's another reason why ADBF is smaller today.

amen to that

Richard has obviously never been to a FODB/V02/RGL party at Crush :lol:  always memorable (or not, as the case may be) 8)

I pride myself on the Alcan medals I've earned, not on the stats of achieving one. The level of competition, not the number of teams entered, is the reason why doing well at Alcan, medal or not, makes the event much more special. I would only add divisions where it is merited, such as the calibre of Rec A and B teams this year, not to increase the probability of achieving a medal. I can go to a dollar store to get one.

the festival side of ADBF has certainly seemed to decline, and the overall number of teams has also gone down slightly as well.

But what's most important is the competition seems to be getting stronger all the time, and at the end of the day, that's what's most important.

The highschool students who volunteered at the Alcan Festival, the Alcan Regatta, and the FCRCC Regatta were not simply trying to fulfill their volunteer service hours.  They are paddlers and they will be our future paddlers.  They volunteered their time, on the weekend before exams, because they want to contribute to a sport that they've grown to love, and I think they should be given more credit for their enthusiasm, spirit, and services.

well said Darth...while many were in beer garden , the RaceFace junior team won an award for outstanding volunteers. Their service to the community and Alcan's acknowledgement is what will spawn the next generation of paddlers.

zeus & darth tater,

RaceFace had alot of fun raiding the docks for both Alcan and FCRCC Regattas. We hope to see everyone at the docks during the Taiwanese Festival[if we get the paper work in on time] ! We'll be cheering everyone on!

Till then ~

cheers,
Anna
[addon]the races wouldn't be possible without the crew from water's edge - they've done one helluva job![/addoff]

re: high school volunteers

My apologies to the dedicated paddlers volunteering their time on the docks, especially Race Face and the future paddlers of tomorrow!!!

I know that in past years, volunteers were recruited from ESL and high schools to help on the docks.  This also resulted in problems as the volunteers often had no idea how to load, unload boats, as well as how to say things in English.

I applaud Race Face, and volunteers who are also paddlers.  It makes a HUGE difference in the smooth running of the docks.  It was great to see my favorite dock person Maddie, back on the docks. 

Again, when the paddlers are involved on many operational levels, the festival and the races run much smoother, paddlers have more fun.  And... will be sure to come back!

To Synergy J-Speed,

I would like to point out that you guys are one of the most sportsman like teams on the water, along with GHS Pirates.  Thanks for all your encouragements and console after the collision.  It was much needed.  Not sure if it was you guys, but good job volunteering prior to Alcan.


From all of Hamber

Back on topic, other then the fact that there was less room in the tents, does it really matter that the venue is smaller?  it was still one helluva weekend,

My sincerest apologies for dragging up this thread from over a month ago.  I don't get to read these forums as often as I like now a days.

I just wanted to point out some incorrect historical facts given in this thread.  I'm not 100% sure of all the details either since I wasn't around way back then but dragon boating started around here back in 1986 (or planning for it in anticipation of events in 86 started in 1985) during Expo 86 when 6 teak dragon boats were given to the City of Vancouver/the Chinese Cultural Centre.  An organization was formed to oversee the use and upkeep of these boats.  That organaization was (and still is) the CCC Dragon Boat Association.  It wasn't until sometime in the early 90's that it was decided a large cultural festival should be run alongside the dragonboating activities.  Thus was formed the Dragon Boat Festival (later to become the Alcan DBF).  DBA ran all water related activities while DBF ran all on land festival activities up until the two organizations parted ways in 2000 or 2001.  I personally helped run the Finish Line for DBA since 1994 and even helped after DBA left for another year or two.

DBA was and still is an organization entirely made up of volunteers.  Not one of us makes any money from the organization.  We give time from our busy lives to run things.  Thanks to all the volunteers helping to make all of the events out there happen.  Without the volunteers no races anywhere would happen.