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Author Topic: City adds island sanctuary to Southeast False Creek project  (Read 34496 times)
rtsdhvy
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« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2006, 01:02:45 PM »

Burnaby Lake might be an option for the actual racing part of the Alcan Festival, but the site would need
some renovations to be able to host the cultural part of the festival. Here are some random thoughts and
questions about using Burnaby Lake.

- How would the activities and facilities of the Burnaby Canoe And Kayak Club be affected and /or utilised??
- Are there any plans in the works by either the City of Burnaby or a private party to dredge Burnaby Lake
  to remove plantlife that is growing into the lake from the shoreline and the lake bottom??
- The dock that is adjacent to the Burnaby Canoe And Kayak Club would probably have to be enlarged in
  order to accomodate the large number of paddlers loading and unloading for races.
- The grandstand area would have to be renovated. During my last visit to the area I noticed that the
  grandstand area was blocked off and marked as unsafe to use.
- How would an event the size of Alcan affect the environment of Burnaby Lake?
- The actual race site is very accessible via the freeway, and a shuttle service could be set up for people who
  choose to take the skytrain, perhaps at Holdom or Kensington?? station(I think it's called Kensington)
- Parking for those who choose to drive seems to be adequate, although some of the parking lots around the
  hockey rink( i don't remember the name) and soccer pitch are a bit of a walk from the lake. 
- I think that the lake is about 8km long so there is plenty of water to race on.
- It may be possible to reach an agreement with the City of Burnaby to use the soccer pitch and hockey
  arena to house the cultural events.
Lots of questions, not many answers at this time, but if Alcan has to be moved, Burnaby Lake could work.

Any Comments??
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rtsdhvy
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2006, 01:10:53 PM »

just thought of 2 more advantages to moving to burnaby lake.

1) no tides to worry about.

2) no water taxis to play"dodge the boat"with, although "dodge the boat" can sometimes be fun.
















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Dr. Evil
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« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2006, 03:01:21 PM »

rtsdhvy:

I agree with you, Burnaby Lake would be an ideal location for hosting Alcan. Problem is, all 3 levels of government cannot come up with a cost sharing arrangement to turn Burnaby Lake into an international standard rowing facility. The Burnaby Lake Rejuvenation Project was estimated to cost  around $26-$30 million. The city has budgeted for their portion, the provincial liberals had promised $10 million back in May 2005 as part of their election promises (don't know where that promise ended up), and the Fed's, with its minority gov'ts and its already committed funding to 2010, do not have the $$ to contribute to the project.

I do believe that some small scale dredging is taking place. But the scale of dredging that is req'd to bring Burnaby Lake to international standards to host rowing, canoeing & kayak (& DB) events would take about 3-5 years from what I have read. That is the dredging part. As you've pointed out, the grandstands & docks also need to be upgraded/replaced and that is not going to happen until the dredging is done (Chicken & the Egg scenario).

You've brought up another issue that stands as an obstacle...the environmental aspect. Bby Lake is a wildlife habitat & bird sanctuary. Conservationists and environmental groups have been quite vocal about preserving the lake as a wildlife & bird sanctuary and support dredging only to the point where it helps preserve it as such.

It would be nice to see Burnaby Lake host rowing & paddling events again. It did host the 1972 Canada Games and I think the last major event that it hosted was back in the early to mid-80's when it hosted the rowing & paddling events for the BC Summer Games.

I think the city would be receptive to being able to host a large event like Alcan. Not that I have any inside scoop, just basing it on the fact that the city has committed the money to the Rejuvenation Project, built Bill Copeland arena, built additional soccer & rugby pitches and supported the expansion of the then 4-Rinks into 8-Rinks which are all within the vicinity of Burnaby Lake. The whole plan around the Burnaby Lake area was to turn Burnaby into a sports & recreation mecca. An international rowing & paddling facility would enhance that.
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dto
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« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2006, 04:21:24 PM »

Ummm ...

Myself, I don’t think I’ll put much faith in any last-ditch effort to change any of this (with due apologies to Guido, Colossus, & the others suggesting a protest of some sort).

The politicos & bureaucrats are off & running on their whole Grand Vision for SEFC.  They’ve done all the “community input” they’re ever going to, have done a sh*t-load of papers & presentations to Van City Council & its committees – & it all went thru over the last several years.

I very much doubt you’re going to be able deflect them at this juncture.  It’s a done deal.

The Courier story says the idea for the island was “really one of those ideas that came to be“, which seems to have been taken here to mean “just recently”.

But it is not all that new.

Y'all might want to look at the SEFC info "tour" videos linked on these two pages:

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/Greaterdot_wa/index.cfm?fuseaction=GVTV.storyDet&storyid=507
  (02 Nov 2005)

and http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/greaterdot_wa/index.cfm?fuseaction=GVTV.storyDet&storyId=578
 (16 Oct 2006)

(BTW – seems kind of odd that the videos mention kayaking … but there’s no DBs or outriggers anywhere to be seen.)

In the 2005 tour, the presenter (the same Jody Andrews referred to above - City-of-Van SEFC project manager) talks about the new island, at about 3/4 of the way thru the video.  He appears to be standing on the NE corner of the barge moored closest to the Cambie bridge, when he says "the island will be right here" (or words to that effect).

The presenter in the 2006 video (one of the project engineers, pretty dialed-in – she sure reels off the numbers & details right smartly), mentions the island, but only in passing.

From the videos, it looks to me that the island will be no more or less of an impediment to our various paddling activities than the barge now is.  Excuse me sah, is this the Tsartlip Island Pub?

(can’t be sure, though, since I can’t find any detailed drawings of the island, or anything else, on the various SEFC web sites - lots of smallish artistic renderings, but nothing that gives actual dimensions & locations)

But whatever the actual size & location, yeah - I think that a "permanent barge" is a BAD idea!!

Maybe Alcan will have to go to 250 metre races, when the dust settles.  Or hey … a 500 metre Guts & Glory for each race?  Hah!!

Take a look at the race course photo from 2004 – then try to fit in a 9-lane, 500 metre course, plus pre-start area & finish run-out, into the water space left over if there’s a “football field” sized island plunked down where the left-most barge is sitting in this photo.  Sigh …

And yeah, a "walk across the inter-tidal channel to get to it" island is a REALLY DUMB IDEA!

Let’s see here.  Walk across a TIDAL channel?  A 15-foot range, two Highs per day, tidal channel?  20 or 30 metres of sea bottom, sluiced two times per day each way with FC’s “interesting” water & all the flotsam & jetsam we see at every practice?  I think I’d want hip-waders … at the very least …

Hello, C-of-V Engineering?  Have any of you folks ever taken notice of the MANY stories out of Richmond about the "walk across to ..." island out here, Shady Island?  Especially the many times someone has had to be rescued after getting stranded by a rising tide?  Even a few drownings (see http://www.richmond-news.com/issues05/072105/news/072105nn5.html).

Similar physical layout, expect it’s natural (sort of – some of the island is river dredgings).  See

At low tide, there's a strip of dried-out river bottom, running from that little bit of sticking-out land just East of the #2 Road pier, over to the tip of the island.  A couple of times each year, someone strolls blithely across it … despite the warning signs … then gets stranded by the rising tide, so then Daddy Evolution's gene-pool weed-whacker tries to go to work … except that we can't stand to watch ... so the silly-nauts get rescued.

Hmmm … maybe there’s a new way of team fund-raising here!  “Rides back to shore in a gen-u-wine dragon boat, only $20!!!” would make a fine sign on all the Coaches’ back-sides, don’cha think?

Tell me, Mr. Andrews - have you run your nice “island dream” past any of the hard-working folks-in-blue in the Van Police Dept?  No?  Uhhh … don’t you think maybe they already have enough to do, protecting us against the Real Bad Dudes, without adding yet another dark corner for them to have to look after??

Ah, what the heck - druggies & squatters & such-like will make a fine bit of “authentic local ambience” for the up-scale SEFC home-steaders’ water views, come post-2010.

Save yer energy fer paddlin’, people … t’aint nuthin much else sensible … IMHO!!!  Be grateful they’re not trying to pave over the whole East end of the Creek (“hey, think of all the **extra** tax revenue we’d raise!!!”).

Dan

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tiger
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« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2006, 05:32:31 PM »

Burnaby lake will need to be dredged quite a bit.  A canoe/kayak course does not need to be as deep as a DB course, anyone raced in Montreal Basin in a DB?  Yes some have and it is a bad site for DB.  You can see the boats all getting dragged down the course because of the reflection (the water hitting the bottom and coming back up).  Montreal is great for getting to know how to wasjh ride though (IMO).  If Montreal is a good example of a kayak/canoe course then Burnaby course will not be that good (I would want the water to be at least 5 meters for DB).

Now if they dredge it deep enough then yes it will be great but I doubt they will dredge it that deep.
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paddleboy
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« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2006, 06:54:17 PM »

 Guess we could always change the race to the Alcan Sprints ........200 or 250 meters of everything you got .........how fun would that be  Smile  200's rock !
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Luke
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« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2006, 08:50:49 PM »

there'd be be quite a bit of dredging to do then...

was at Burnaby today, and about 50m^2 of a circular area smack in the middle of the course was so shallow that my paddle hit the mud, and I was in a small boat,

also, I heavily doubt there are any room for spectators as the whole area is surrounded by woodland and inaccessible, unless you want to go into the marsh.

Burnaby tried to hold a very small youth DB regatta last year, 10 elementary schools and 4 HS, and even then they had some problems accommodating us.  There was only room for a 200m course 4 lane, and I believe that's the maximum extent.
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Dr. Evil
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« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2006, 10:47:58 PM »

Excerpted from the engineering report for the Burnaby Lake Rejuvenation Project:

2.2.3 Option 3 (Environmental and Recreational Enhancement)

In addition to Option 2, seven areas are identified for recreational enhancement. This would improve lake access and provide more open water for recreational canoeing and kayaking. This option would also include a four lane training course for rowers. The course would utilize the four southern lanes originally built in 1971 for the 1973 Canadian Games. The course dimensions would be 2166 m long, 54 m wide, and 2 m deep. A plan and cross sections of the four lane training course are included in Appendix F.

2.2.4 Option 4 (International Standard Rowing Course)

Option 4 is similar to Option 3 except that an international standard rowing course is proposed rather than the training rowing course. The international standard rowing course would have six racing lanes, two warm-up lanes and two buffer lanes. The location and dimensions of the international standard rowing course would be the same as the original rowing course built in 1971. The course dimensions are given in Table 1. Dredge volumes were calculated for both 2 m and 3 m deep courses. Dimensional drawings of the proposed international standard rowing course are included in Appendix F.

Table 1
Proposed Rowing Course Dimensions
Length
“Start ” to “Finish ”           2000m
Bottom Length               2166m
Shore to Shore               2182m

Width
Racing Lanes                      6 at 13.5 m each
Warm-Up Lanes                  2 at 13.5 m each
Buffer Lanes                     2 at 8.0 each
Bottom Width                      124.0 m



Depth
Option 4a            2.0 m
Option 4b             3.0 m


2.2.5 Dredge Volumes

The dredge volume for each dredge site and each option are provided in Table 2 in Section 2.7.Options 4A and 4B refer to the 2 m and 3 m dredge depths respectively for the international standard rowing course.


Tiger raises a valid point, even if Burnaby Lake was dredged to 2-3m, it may be too shallow for DB.

To Luke's point:

also, I heavily doubt there are any room for spectators as the whole area is surrounded by woodland and inaccessible, unless you want to go into the marsh.


It wasn't always like that! Nature has a way of taking back what is hers if left alone long enough!  Laughing
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Rossifumi
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2006, 12:24:25 PM »

after thinking it over, i do see the merits to this type of project.  If you realize that Vancouver as a destination has a lot to offer, mild climate, mountains, oceans, excellent areas for outdoor activity etc etc... something like this does add another dimension or element to the city.

And when you realize that there are a ton of people who travel that along that stretch everyday, well, why not?  It's a fine way to beautify the city.  at least till the bums move in.

Of course, this is all very ironic, setting up a fine little 'island' in the middle of a toilet bowl.  I think everyone here would be very impressed if these plans included something to address all the sources of extreme pollution in these waters.  I found 3 needles during the 06 season for instance.  Nasty
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Colossus
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2006, 01:41:30 PM »

i found 3 dead rats, and 2 live ones! Laughing  and there was a dead body found at one of our practices  Cool
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« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2006, 02:29:14 PM »

i found 3 dead rats, and 2 live ones! Laughing  and there was a dead body found at one of our practices  Cool

dead body?  you serious...fc men hit a swimmer at 20km/h with a db?
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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2006, 08:22:24 PM »

no, on one of the saturday OC practices there was a dead body found floating in alder bay i think it was. unfortunately, i had work that morning and missed practice.  Sad
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Rossifumi
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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2006, 09:33:01 PM »

it's happened before.  someone commits suicide off Granville Bridge, and the current take them into Alder Bay.
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