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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[adbf]

Thanks LW for the pics, always awesome.

"Suspiciously absent were PAC Reach and ACME. Too bad the format eliminated a lot of the other teams from showing their Mojo (FODB, Scotia, JDS) but the Alcan regatta will provide some answers I'm sure." 

Not sure I agree with your comment about Scotia and JDA, they were in heats that were wide open based on what I could see, in fact based on looking at the whole thing, JDA was ranked #1 in their heat (Lane 3 was consistently the winner of the first race), they were the ones that lost.  Scotia was against Ultimate so if they are as good as last year should have been close (they were Comp B last year and Ultimate was Comp C), no?  Now the only really hard one was FODB, racing against FCRCC was a bad break but their times still did not match any of the top 4 times so they were maybe one race off where they should have been.

Alcan is just around the corner, who will step it up a notch to get into Comp division?  The biggest surprise was that FCRCC did not blow anyone out of the water, they have trained hard so to win by as little as they did does not bode well for what they are aiming for.

We shall soon see

[Colossus]

Scotia was against Ultimate so if they are as good as last year should have been close (they were Comp B last year and Ultimate was Comp C), no?  Now the only really hard one was FODB, racing against FCRCC was a bad break but their times still did not match any of the top 4 times so they were maybe one race off where they should have been.

Alcan is just around the corner, who will step it up a notch to get into Comp division?  The biggest surprise was that FCRCC did not blow anyone out of the water, they have trained hard so to win by as little as they did does not bode well for what they are aiming for.

We shall soon see

it is well known that ultimate has "up-ed the anti" this year in a push for higher ranking, so i'm not surprised at their placing in the finals.  As for FODB, they were 3 seconds behind ultimate, who were 8 seconds behind FCRCC, which, had there been one or two more boats/heat and had they NOT been against FCRCC in the first heat, I could easily see them racing alongside the rest up in Comp A finals again.  I think that the Alcan regatta Comp A finals is going to be a free-for-all among non FCRCC/Pac Reach-esque teams.

I too am interested in seeing how False Creek Mixed does in the Alcan regatta/Alcan festival.  They've set some high standards for everyone in the past, and now there are new teams forming and training to compete against them.  But they (as well as Roli and others going to the club crews) have also got goals beyond Alcan, so timing of "peaking" (everyone talks about when they want their performance to "peak"....  not the way i'm used to training, but oh well) might not be strictly for alcan. 

[Colossus]

i'm my own spy network....    thats what happens when you'd rather spend an hour or two paddling than sit around at home watching slapstick sitcoms or soap operas

back to the topic at hand (PHOTOS ), i'll post some soon.  i wasn't able to move around too much on sunday, so i didn't get too many photos taken of the races.

[tiger]

Am I missing something? Could someone elaborate on the rumor I heard about not all 6/16's being created equal? I thought the championship race was pretty indicative of where each of the teams stood with lanes 2 and 3 in one timezone and lanes 1 and 4 in another. Though I must say I was a bit disappointed to see Roli a full 6 seconds behind FCRCC.

Not a rumour from what I hear, go paddle the 4 boats that were in the final and you will know where the rumour comes from.  I heard it may have been way closer if the Geminis had been used?  Others can comment on that as I was not there.  Clearly not all boats float the same  , we can just hope they don't use some of these boats in Alcan as teams will get shafted big time .  Based on what I hear from my sources they will be used.

Looking at FODB, they were still close to a boat length behind the top 4 teams (3 seconds slower than Ultimate is close to a boat length).  We can't tell between the next 4 (different boats used) but FODB would have given 5th thru 8th a good run for their money, I would think.  They are always late bloomers (improve the last 3-4 weeks before Alcan) so I would put them in Comp B/C this year, rebuilding year for them.  Of course their Comp A time (from last year) would have put them in the middle of Comp B anyways so maybe they are the same this year, must have got a lucky draw last year at Alcan.  You win some you lose some, I think I would rather get a lucky draw in Alcan than in FCRCC Regatta.

Let the Alcan predictions start.

[paddleboy]

 I was on the one of the boats in the final and it was in such poor condition it probably should not have been used .Some of the seats had collapsed and some of the foot braces were missing all together . The other teams had the newest 6-16's and they were in much better condition  Teams did the best they could given what they had to work with

 

[Rossifumi]

No one should be dissappointed with FCRCC Mixed's performance.  A 1.56/6-16/500m set is about as fast as you can go.  (I think I've seen the 52 range in extremely favourable conditions) 

Also keep in mind you need serious firepower to break the 2.00.00/6-16 barrier.  I could never crack 2.00.04 with the immigrants myself.  Ultimate and Roli are in good shape to be posting in the 2.00 to 2.05 range!

For DWW to push past that is awesome.  It certainly shows their 3/prac week plus small boat work has been put to good use.
So it's not that FCRCC didn't dominate (which they did), it's DWW doing what you're supposed to on the water.

Also, you can't put TOO much stock into times (I know, it's all we have to really go on here).  Not just about changing conditions, but also realize a boat's performance can also tied to it's competition.  With Rec-minded crews especially, 'Alone and in front' you can never dig quite as deep as 'Surrounded and challenged' by other tough teams.

And lastly, yes, the 6-16's won't provide the consistency of the plasticized Gems (tho they can still take on water).  But they are all good enough.  Burying one's self in 'this 16' is faster than 'that 16' is looking for excuses.  A crew would have to be paddling at 100% optimum performance for them to justify saying 'this boat cost us a second'.  Maybe teams like FCRCC mixed, Success etc are entitled to say that, but no one else is.  And i don't think you'd ever hear them saying it either.

[paddleboy]

no one is making excuses ...just stating facts about the general condition of the 6-16 boats used .

 On one hand you have a 1 yr old 6-16's (in the middle lanes) and on the other you have a 6-16's (outside lanes)that have been out there for years and are in need of repairs or restoration . 1 boat needs nothing and the other boat is missing footbraces and seats are collapsed so how are you to drive w/ your legs or rotate on your butt to get reach when the seats are broken and have sunk inside ...think about it .No one is making an excuse because they did the best they could given the equipment they had to use .(Think of the barney boat ...ever remember racing in it) We have used a GPS with the same crew in different 6-16's back to back and the time difference has been big .Try taking your garmin 201/301 out sometime and take readings ....find out for yourself ...you will be amazed

 My suggestion is to have these repairs done before Alcan if they are going to be used to make for a level playing field

 1 other thing I noticed w/ the retro fitted gemini's is the placing of the side support rails .I think it would have been a better idea to have gone under the seat rather than ontop .Its just a matter of a few inches and would have made a big difference for a paddler .The gemini's are a big improvement over what they were  but a little more thought would have made a big difference from the paddlers perspective

[Colossus]

I have to completely agree on the condition of certain 6-16s...  there are at least 2 that have the centre couple of rows (maybe others, but i tend to sit in the middle so those are the rows i have noticed) where the seats have colapsed and "shrunken" away from the gunnel.  any movement pinches the butt, catches the fabric of shorts in the space, and the bucketed seat cuts of circulation and puts a large amount of strain on muscles and chafes like crazy (monkey butt in less than 10 easy strokes).  I agree that these boats should be repaired by Alcan if they are to be used for the races.

[Rossifumi]

no one is making excuses ...just stating facts about the general condition of the 6-16 boats used .

 On one hand you have a 1 yr old 6-16's (in the middle lanes) and on the other you have a 6-16's (outside lanes)that have been out there for years and are in need of repairs or restoration . 1 boat needs nothing and the other boat is missing footbraces and seats are collapsed so how are you to drive w/ your legs or rotate on your butt to get reach when the seats are broken and have sunk inside ...think about it .No one is making an excuse because they did the best they could given the equipment they had to use .(Think of the barney boat ...ever remember racing in it) We have used a GPS with the same crew in different 6-16's back to back and the time difference has been big .Try taking your garmin 201/301 out sometime and take readings ....find out for yourself ...you will be amazed

 My suggestion is to have these repairs done before Alcan if they are going to be used to make for a level playing field

 1 other thing I noticed w/ the retro fitted gemini's is the placing of the side support rails .I think it would have been a better idea to have gone under the seat rather than ontop .Its just a matter of a few inches and would have made a big difference for a paddler .The gemini's are a big improvement over what they were  but a little more thought would have made a big difference from the paddlers perspective

You make some good points. However also take into account:
1.) same boat, back to back tests, lots of rest, same race pointer - you will rarely ever achieve the same time either. 
2.) it's pretty tough to run one race after another with 100% consistency as you mentioned.  Pretty close, sure.
3.) Running back-to-back tests just to accurately gauge the fast/slow boats, well sorry but that's sending entirely the wrong (dangerous imo) message to the team.

I know the boats pretty well seeing as how I have a Garmin surgically grafted to my wrist and from being around them for so damn long.  And I've never said, "let's get that boat b/c it's faster", or "don't worry, we lost that race because that boat's slow" to my crews.  Ever.  Talk about Priority Zero.  Boats are clean?  Good enough.  Just give me a hard race to compete in, that's all I really care about. 



I suppose it's just my personal preferance, I prefer my guys to focus on themselves and each other rather than whatever 'ferrari' or 'crate' they have to sit in.  But that should be common sense to any team should it not?




Why is any of this even important? (and why i'm bothering to write about it)
Let's say you run a race.  It was pretty good.  Or bad.  But whatever, you always want to improve. 
Well how useful is it to say, "don't worry guys, it was the boat.  If we had the Lo Boat we would've been there"?
Paint it whatever colour you like, but that's what it boils down to in the end.

Even a well-trained discplined team like FCRCC or Success post-race (I'm guessing here) will probably say, "let's try to improve "x" a little, I believe it'll be an improvement."  These guys like look for tenths, maybe a second, but not big chunks of time.  I just don't think they hang themselves up on the boats.

[paddleboy]

 Â 

 At this level yes teams know which boats are fast and which are not ...trust me ,elite teams pay very very close attn to the boats themselves .They check the undersides and the condition of the boats ,  how they sit in the water compared to others ,look for water in the bulkheads as every little bit matters .

 It may not matter at a rec/  lower comp level but at the top they watch everything .In the past teams have purposely ,the nite before, gone and checked the boats ...they have lifted the boats out of the water to scrape the hulls just prior to heading out ...there are lots of things we don't see 

 

[Rossifumi]

LOL.

Taking care of things you can control?  Sure.  That's the mark of any good team out there, rec or Comp.
Worry, complain, or make excuses about the things you can't?  I'm sorry, and you're 'elite'?  (I know you're highly opinionated and a bit hot-headed, kinda like me actually)

There's a good handful of people out there I hold much respect for.  People like the coaches of Success, Fcrcc, Roli, Lauren, Andrea, Wayne etc....  People like those I bow to and wish to learn anything and everything I can from.  Please, please forgive me if you are any one of those individuals.

Anyways, I will respect your opinions and leave it at that.

[paddleboy]

 Was not looking for any respect ( afterall I'm just a paddler ).. just making a few points

 

[tiger]

Worry, complain and make excuses about getting saddled with the 'bad' boat?  You see that sorta thing usually on inexperienced teams. 

I guess FCRCC Mixed, final race last year in Kelowna, was an inexperienced team then   due to their complaints etc... all based on your above logic ...BTW they got a crappy boat for sure.

You can only do so much and in the end if a festival or regatta uses very different quality boats, and there are a wide range of 6/16s out there, then the teams have a right to complain, who is paying for the privilege to race?  If a festival/regatta continues to ignore complaints then teams should move on because they are not getting the service that a festival/regatta should provide them, as close to consistent race course and boats as possible and a "fun" and friendly environment.  The organizers cannot control the weather etc so no one should ever complain about that, unless you have an inside track to higher being who has some pull.

My 10 cents worth...

Tig

[Rossifumi]

I guess FCRCC Mixed, final race last year in Kelowna, was an inexperienced team then  due to their complaints etc... all based on your above logic ...BTW they got a crappy boat for sure

Please don't mis-represent what I say, read a bit more thoroughly.

By the same token, that kinda takes away from the winning team who did an excellant job.  You're not trying to say, "they only won b/c the other team got the crappy boat" are you?

[puppy]

Pics coming later tonight
too busy with the crazy a$$ pace of the marshalling (curse you Kerry! but good job) to get on the coach boat for many shots but got a few

Hey Lethal Weapon,

If you were only a few years younger, you could keep up with me.....

I think you should stop spending your money on bigger lenses, but a camera that can take faster shots. OR get a boat, that moves faster...

See you at the next regatta....get ready.....