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Dragon Boat Canada


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Canoe Kayak Canada

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[Beat My Drum]

The question is, what can WE do more to ensure there are more locally elite teams competing at the national level? Whether or not the teams are watered down is subject to many opinions but we what do we define as an appropriate number of “comp A� teams? 8? 16? 32? What standards do we use to compare them with Canada East teams/Asian Teams? How will we gauge what is a successful number of teams?

Does DB Vancouver have the infrastructure/resources to “raise� the bar for the local teams? This all begins with us as a community. I agree with Tiger that it all starts with the 20 yr olds; perhaps even younger potential paddlers. That’s not to say we can’t have elite 40-50 something yr old Paddlers but without a large pool of novice and rec paddlers to develop into Comp A caliber athletes; you will statistically have fewer Comp A caliber Teams.

I’ll use the example of Canada’s only World cup of soccer entrant (1986 Team). Why was this nation able to field a qualifier and none since? So many requirements are necessary. There were many Canadians playing soccer not only at the 12 and under level; but there were leagues to develop the 18 and under talent. More importantly, there was an adult league (NASL) to continue the development of the best of the best. They competed with the best on a regular basis. To be the best, u have to beat the best and be able to learn from the best. Jung_Du and Lethal Weapon bring up great points about how WE as a DB community can get to that level locally.  There needs to be more infrastructure; more salaried coaches/managers/organizers; standardized rules and regulations and support from the local community. Why do we no longer have a Canadian Soccer team at the world cup qualifier entrant in 20yrs? We no longer have an equivalent league comparable to the NASL. Why do we have a national Hockey team that competes for the Gold medal at every world class event? We have infrastructure and leagues that develop the adult talent to that world class caliber. How many of us wanted to be # 99 Wayne Gretzky? Such a large talent pool of kids got so excited about hockey and stayed in hockey to develop into the Sidney Crosby and Tyson Nash of today. WE as a DB community must do the same here. Contrary to Paddleboy; the need to have a large field of rec teams to draw from and develop talent to the comp A level is a essential to fulfil whatever the requirement Chaos considers as the acceptable number of TRUE elite teams. How much training/talent/team development does an athlete need to get on the FRCC men’s team? You cannot just force a team of 24 paddlers to go to the gym 3 X/week or train on the water 4 X/per week to get to the Comp A level.

It’s not as simple as Paddleboy thinks. You also need the team to have chemistry and be professional about the needs of the team over the needs of the individual. I was on the team that won Alcan 2003 Rec A gold with Paddleboy. Paddleboy was not sat out cos he was annoying( even though he is   ); Paddleboy was sat out cos the Coach decided the roster for that particular race was the best possible combination for the team to win that race. As with any team sport, you win as a team and you lose as individuals. Paddleboy also neglects to post that we were not even ranked to be in rec A that yr. We clawed and battled our way from being Rec C the year before to get up to the Rec A finals over a two yr period. Our Captain and managers went out and recruited a world caliber coach. We competed against and learned from best of the rec div teams even though we practiced once a week. We had that spirit to be the best once we figured out we could beat other teams in the rec div that practiced more than us on and off the water. Our Finish call was “ HOW BAD DO U WANT IT!!!â€� The core of the team bonded to the point where we WOULD give our lives for each other. Would anyone on Paddleboy’s current team honestly say they would do the same for Paddleboy?

We shared the excitement of DB with anyone who would listen and tried to recruit them. I am VERY proud to say that we have developed paddlers that have gone on to Comp A teams. Once the elitist mentality comes in to the DB community; that is a step backwards for this TEAM sport that we all love.

“Build it and they will come�. If we make DB THE team sport to be in for the lower mainland and WE establish the infrastructure to support these teams; then our Comp A teams can take on anyone anywhere. If you feel that teams on the west are too laid back, BE the inspiration that goes out and motivate the community to recruit the best local talent and share your enthusiasm. Find the best coaches/managers and pay them well. Without the many Volunteers/organizers' dedication at Dragon Zone and at the festivals, none of the events would be worth entering. Go after the corporate dollars to increase the resources for DB. If we want it bad enough, we’ll get it.

BMD

ok, back to gossiping about stealth seals and Paddleboy's hardcore partying at celebrites  

[paddleboy]

How much training/talent/team development does an athlete need to get on the FRCC men’s team?

 To make the Fcrcc team is not as hard as you make it ........trust me ,the first thing you have to have is belief in yourself .Not all of them are in the gym

You cannot just force a team of 24 paddlers to go to the gym 3 X/week or train on the water 4 X/per week to get to the Comp A level.

 this really shows how much you know about comp teams ......................NOT all comp team paddlers train in the gym and nor do they train 4 train times a week on the water .......they just have more desire to succeed

Paddleboy was not sat out cos he was annoying( even though he is   ); Paddleboy was sat out cos the Coach decided the roster for that particular race was the best possible combination for the team to win that race.

 Lol........thats sooooo funny..........did I really hit a nerve w/ you guys or what ,lol .That wasn't the reason ...........geeez .You guys always said out loud I was way too competitive .Hey all I wanted was the team to step up ,I can't remember how many times I bit my lip when it was said.In fact I was the only one on the boat that trained in the gym hard 4 times a week to better myself .............were you doing that ? Answer -Noooooooooo . I did it because I wanted to win and play with the big boys .

Would anyone on Paddleboy’s current team honestly say they would do the same for Paddleboy?

Answer- yes and even more so , comp teams are very very close as we spend alot of time together

Paddleboy's hardcore partying at celebrites  

 sorry never been there , but my girlfriend says it's a cool place for some


  Just continue doing what your doing ,there is nothing that I said that I lied about so I'm not sure why some of you are getting a little upset . I repeat ............. NOTHING I SAID WAS NOT TRUE and you know it so stop being so defensive .   We'll see you at Alcan   ...................good luck !!!

[Beat My Drum]

Paddleboy, once again you need to focus on the thread and not on yourself. you may have the desire and the free time to train and physically "better" yourself but the thread is on TEAMS and CREWS. You did also need to understand that the TEAM is bigger than you or any individual. Your Former team has done what it needs to take to better themselves and we wanted to make sure that those facts are pointed out. We have gone out and recruited paddlers so that the DB community as a whole can get better over time yet all you seem to want to talk about is yourself.  8)   Dude, this is a forum and your side of the story may be all about u... all I'm trying to do is to give the rest of the forum the other side of the story as well as the rest of the facts. Take your passion and use it to build DB in the lower mainland. We've been doing our part. We have the passion and desire and will do what we can. Please don't speak for us as you are NOT in the decision making process for our team. Please don't ASSume we lack any competitive spirit as we give our all in every race that we are in.

DB is a team sport and we will "dial in" when it's appropriate and we will "have fun" as time permits. We're sorry you were not able to gel with our team and we're glad you have found a team that has the ability to paddle your EGO around the creek. It's ok that you didn't want to be part of a process to help develop our team and new paddlers but it's simply tactless to portray developing teams in a negative light just because they have not currently reach the Comp A level. It's always easier to say that this team doesn't do this or won't do that to win. Then take a leadership role and be the positive drive behind the Team. You want the team to go with you? then you better damn well make sure you can inspire/excite the team.

Yes, it' always easier to develop yourself and make it on to an existing Comp A team.  We prefer to Develop Comp A paddlers so that more Comp A teams can exist. That's one of our team goals and if you spent any time listening to us instead of posing around us then perhaps your time with us wouldn't have been so painful.    

We're sorry if we could not convey to you the spirit of our team and we will endeaveour to provide all our Paddlers on our team the true essence of DB  so there will never be another Paddleboy horror story again!!

BMD

where's that number for Colby's shrink again?

[fun@allcosts]

...

*ADMIN NOTE*
I have removed this post as it did not follow Forum Rules.
- No flaming of other members to incite or perpetuate a conflict or argument. ANY personal attacks or name calling will get you banned.
- Keep personal conversations on ICQ, AIM, email, or the forum software's Private Message (PM) feature. The forum is not for back-and-forth chats. Ask yourself these questions:
-- Does the text of my reply consist of two or fewer sentances?
-- Have my last couple of posts to the thread all been responses to the same person?
-- Does my post refer to receiver specifically and will not have any value to other members of the Forum?
- Respect the privacy of other members and individuals. Do not post personal information about them (i.e. addresses, phone numbers, passwords, etc.)
I am seriously growing tired of this... Congratulations fun@allcosts on your first and LAST post on DBW

[BigTallTree]

OK.. this is getting ridiculous...
As much as people love seeing off-topic issues brought up and dirty laundry being aired, how does this kind of banter between paddleboy, Beat My Drum and Waterbunny help the state of dragon boat?  This topic should be kept between you guys as it seems that you guys need to sit down and talk it out like adults or however you wish to resolve it.
This thread is to discuss the state of the "sport" of dragon boat in the Lower Mainland and not about how someone left a Rec team to a Comp team. To all parties involved... please refrain from further commenting of your own issues in this thread. If you really wish to air your dirty laundry, start your own thread. If you want to comment on your thoughts on "Jumping Ship" add to this old thread. I have more important things to do than splitting threads to remain on topic.

paddleboy, Beat My Drum, Waterbunny and any others that wish to continue their "discussion", heed my words for posting privileges may be revoked

[hoover]

Just wanted to see what other people's thoughts are on what's needed to develop more competitive local crews on the creek that don't come out of FCRCC or have their own equipment e.g. Pacific Reach.

Don't have anything against those two models, but what options do non-FCRCC clubs have to compete at that level; and what suggestions do people have to develop those resources?

[Secret Weapon]

I believe both dragon zone and FCRCC supply tandem boats which are a great learning tool.  You'll improve your strength and technique in these small boats.  Pogue sports also offers OC training as does Jericoh.

[hoover]

hey secret weapon

That's the point I'm trying to make ....

I already paddle OC1 out of FCRCC during during the fall and winter. My dragonboat club is based out of DZ, and we already use the marathons there for training and time trials.

From what I perceive, DZ was created to provide an option to FCRCC for local teams to practice out off. As part of that option doesn't it make sense to provide resources to paddlers to better themselves? Don't get me wrong .. I totally appreciate the use of the marathons at DZ; but I find that having only two marathons limiting i.e. you have to schedule usage + also have a paddling partner available to go with you. At FCRCC, with the solos you can pretty much train on your own schedule as long as you don't use them while another program is running. I'm fortunate that  I can afford membership in both places, but that's not the case with everybody.

I'm thinking more of how to develop a larger competitive base of paddlers in the creek as an alternative to the FCRCC programs. FCRCC has developed really good paddlers with their programs, but that base is small compared to say out East esp. with all their flatwater programs to choose from.

Not trying to point out flaws, but more curious as to what people think is necessary to raise the bar on the sport locally.

[Rossifumi]

get more people in the sport, joining these clubs so they in turn can justify increasing said resources.

The paddling scene back east is probably three times as big as it is out here, maybe more.

[pullingwater]

The best way to increase the resources and competiveness on the creek is to have a kick ass junior / or high school teams. I can't believe that none of you saw the loalam eagles do so well out there . Coached by none other than Hugh Fischer these guys have stuck together and trained and now will be the next competive group out there - they are NOT from the Creek - they are from Pemberton!    
   When I look around at Alcan the average age is way in the 30's and on - we need some young talent out there. it not about resources of stuff like more boats  - it's better coaching and a younger crowd.

[Photog]

I can't believe that none of you saw the loalam eagles do so well out there . Coached by none other than Hugh Fischer . . . . they are NOT from the Creek - they are from Pemberton!

I honestly can't fathom why you would think that. Everyone I know in dragonboating ( >100 people) knows the above. They are so watched and such common knowledge that it's almost an insult that you claim we don't notice them. On top of that you incorrectly spelt their team name.

[Rossifumi]

I can't believe that none of you saw the loalam eagles do so well out there . Coached by none other than Hugh Fischer . . . . they are NOT from the Creek - they are from Pemberton!

I honestly can't fathom why you would think that. Everyone I know in dragonboating ( >100 people) knows the above. They are so watched and such common knowledge that it's almost an insult that you claim we don't notice them. On top of that you incorrectly spelt their team name.

I agree.  Sounds like Melanie is looking for an excuse to drop Fischer's name, but his name does not need to be.  Everyone seems to know of him and the kickass job he does.

The good doctor also strikes me as a guy who let's the results speak for themselves.

[Ken]

question:  what are the costs to belong to FC and DZ?  and do they have a lot of club equipment available so that you can pretty much head out anytime you want?

access to equipment is always a big obstacle to getting people to train and not depend on having a team practice.  my team has started buying canoes on our own to overcome this obstacle.  all the "dedicated" paddlers pretty much share equipment and push each other to get out on the water during other times than the  team practices.

here in the SF area there aren't many major paddling centers (there are in los angeles).  the closest we have are outrigger paddling clubs that have a multitude of equipment.  there are more and more dragon boaters that are joining both their db team as well as an outrigger team to get the water time they desire.

[DBWTim]

FCRCC offers two Membership Types, Basic (covers use of a dragon boat at scheduled practice slots) and Regular (covers use of a dragon boat at scheduled practice slots, use of marathon canoes and older OC-1s, use of a coach boat (requires advance booking), and rebates for any full use FCRCC members on the roster by a set date in March)
Fees go by the number of Practices/Week, Basic Membership or Regular Membership. For the standard 2 practices a week with Regular Membership, teams are looking at about $2900 CDN.

This may sound like alot but there are Potential Fee Reductions like:
• Senior and junior teams (all paddlers) – 50% of fees for weekday practice slots before 5:30 PM.
• Teams that put the FCRCC logo on their race jerseys get a $100 rebate.
• Sign up for Friday evening or Saturday afternoon practice slots and save $400 (maximum $400 per team).
• Refer a new team to FCRCC and receive a $300 rebate when they pay their registration fees for 2005, and $150 in subsequent years (maximum three).
• Receive a rebate for each Full FCRCC member on your roster. Not to exceed 20 paddlers or total team fees paid.
• If you have 20 Full FCRCC members on your roster, you qualify for two Full Registration practice slots/week at no charge (but no rebates).
• Apply for dock duty.

FCRCC also offers services such as...
• FCCC – change rooms and showers; fitness center ($3 drop-in, $26 for 10)
• Erg (OC shed)
• OC Orientations
• FCRCC Womens and FCRCC Mens teams

DragonZone on the other hand runs about $1979.50 CDN after taxes for the full year for two practices a week for an adult team with discounts for less practices and juniors.

Dragon Zone offers the use of a coach boat for teams that
regularly practice once or more a week. They also have two marathon canoes for small boat practices and time controls. These were easy to get into last season but this season these seem to be booked more often than ever. They also managed to pick up an ERG this year.

To answer Ken's question... can a member just go to the club and jump in a boat anytime they want? In a dragonboat, the answer would be no. In small boats it's really dependant on what's going on at that time.

[pullingwater]

The point I am making is that resourses don't make the padlder !  lets once again look at Pemberton   They started with nothing - voyageur canoes. The Coach ,,,yes Hugh fischer... took his juniors to the worlds - they won- took them to Nationals ,then took them to the world Outrigger  sprint championships in Hilo hawaii - over 60 kids went !!!  . These kids have raced  abroad more than most dragonboaters.  

 as a club they don't really have two Loonies  to rub together !  I know I donated 15 paddles for use in Hilo.

  They didn't have showers, a fleet of oc-1's,  paddle Ergs  latest design of Dragon baot or a community of paddlers to draw from - they have a really good coach with a huge vision. The same holds true with the False Creek Woman - a really good coach with a huge vision !

Don't we need better coaches? is that not a resourse ?