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Author Topic: ADBF Specialty Cups  (Read 8887 times)
nakano
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« on: April 16, 2004, 12:40:35 AM »

Quote from: Steamrollers Moaner
As for specialty cups... we won't know till end of May what kind of speciality cups there will be.


It seems like all Cup races have been disappearing in the last few years.

2000 5 Cup races:
Kokanee Challenge Cup
Ishtar Senior Cup
Taiwan Daily Community Cup
SavingUMoney.com Cup
Sing Tao (Canada) Media+Communications Cup

2001 3 Cup races:
BCTV Media+Communications Cup
BC Lottery Community Cup
Nokia Hi-Tech Cup

2002 4 Cup races:
BCTV Media+Communications Cup
Concord Pacific Group Community Cup
Asia Pacific Foundation Friendship Cup
Nokia Hi-Tech Cup

2003 1 Cup race:
Nokia Hi-Tech Cup

2004 ? Cup race...

Guess most of the cup races had to do with economics.  Then there are some that have had their names changed, ie BCTV...Global BCTV.

Quote from: Steamrollers Moaner
it's already mid April, yet ADBF doesn't have the City's approval for many things


Hmm...maybe the dragon boat community should show its strength by numbers, and all go knocking on the mayors door to quicken things up.

Example:
100 plus local teams, x 26 member on each team = 2600 plus people.

That could be enough to make things happen! Very Happy
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Kibble
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2004, 02:34:26 PM »

Quote from: nakano

It seems like all Cup races have been disappearing in the last few years.

2000 5 Cup races:
Kokanee Challenge Cup
Ishtar Senior Cup
Taiwan Daily Community Cup
SavingUMoney.com Cup
Sing Tao (Canada) Media+Communications Cup

2001 3 Cup races:
BCTV Media+Communications Cup
BC Lottery Community Cup
Nokia Hi-Tech Cup

2002 4 Cup races:
BCTV Media+Communications Cup
Concord Pacific Group Community Cup
Asia Pacific Foundation Friendship Cup
Nokia Hi-Tech Cup

2003 1 Cup race:
Nokia Hi-Tech Cup

2004 ? Cup race...

Guess most of the cup races had to do with economics.  Then there are some that have had their names changed, ie BCTV...Global BCTV.


I think you're right about that, nakano.  They have been disappearing over the years -- and there's a good chance Nokia's might be gone by this year as well.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't these cup races cost about $800 each to sponsor?  I think it's just not worth the money for that 2.5 minute race and company promo.

Not to mention, you get teams like Steamrollers getting into the Hi-Tech Cup.   What's so "high-tech" about them?   Do they have 'high-tech' burrito makers or something?  Thinking
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paddleBOT
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2004, 04:05:20 PM »

There fewer teams back then as well.  With more teams, adding extra races gets quite busy.  But the specialty cups were added excitement.  Now the 2000 metre race is the exciting race.

The specific rules for the specialty cups were:

1. Team sponsored by tech company or
2. Team comprised of x number of paddlers employed in tech industry.

In past specialty cup races, not all teams in the races had a title name associated with the particular cup.  So, the teams could have had paddlers employed in the industry, or they also had minor sponsors in the industry.
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Kibble
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2004, 11:04:16 PM »

Quote from: moturismo
I think the specific rules for the specialty cups were:

1. Team sponsored by tech company or
2. Team comprised of x number of paddlers employed in tech industry.

I looked at past specialty cup races, and not all teams in the races had a title name associated with the particular cup.  So, the teams could have had paddlers employed in the industry, or they also had minor sponsors in the industry.


Then technically speaking, the majority of teams at Alcan could claim that they should be in the Tech Cup.  Hmm, how many paddlers do you know who work with a state-of-the-art high-tech microcomputer?   GM was even in it in 2002.  GM = car company.  Sure you could say the machinery used to make cars is also "high-tech".   Confused

The point being that the cup races may have also lost popularity due to the fact that they attracted the wrong types of teams.   At least for high-tech, it was more meant for the wireless technology companies -- Sierra, Motorola, Nokia, rather than teams like GM & Steamrollers.  

The rules for entering into the cup races have always been very lax because the ADBF committee allows for the cup sponsors to set their own rules.  The sponsors of course don't really know the first thing racing, the various divisions, levels of competition, etc.  Teams like GM kept winning it year after year, discouraging the actual technology teams from bothering to field a team for it.   You get a comp team that's borderline high-tech entering into the race year after year kicking everyone else's butts,  teams are going to be discouraged from entering into that extra race.  

But yes, the 2000 metre is definitely the grande finale now -- maybe cup races are just one of those things fazing out of Alcan.     Thinking
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paddleBOT
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2004, 01:30:30 AM »

Quote from: Kibble

The point being that the cup races may have also lost popularity due to the fact that they attracted the wrong types of teams.   At least for high-tech, it was more meant for the wireless technology companies -- Sierra, Motorola, Nokia, rather than teams like GM & Steamrollers.  


The cup races lost popularity because the hi-tech companies aren't sponsoring teams anymore.  In 2003, there was only Nokia and Telos.  Where did Sierra, Motorola, MDSI and Agilent go?  Think tech fallout!  So if we go by your suggestion of making it strictly hi-tech wireless, we would have the 2 Nokia teams and Telos racing.  Three teams racing is a waste of time for the organizers, paddlers, and spectators. It also doesn't look good when they announce a sponsored race with that few teams.  What do the organizers tell the Nokia marketing team when only 3 teams qualify for the Hi-Tech cup, and 2 of the teams are Nokia? . . . that Nokia has 2/3 chance of winning the cup?

There aren't enough wireless companies to form your ideal specialty tech race.  The only type of race it would work for is for Financial firms which includes TD, CIBC, VanCity, Price Waterhouse, PH&N, Scotia, HSBC, Deloitte and Touche, BMO, etc.  All these teams were at the 2003 festival.

In 2001, Nokia was in 2 specialty cup races.  In 2002, they were in 3 specialty cup races.  How does Nokia get into a Media cup when they're technically a hi-tech wireless team?  By taking advantage of the lax rules ...

Nakano's statement sums it up well:
Quote from: Nakano

Guess most of the cup races had to do with economics.


Until sponsorship begins to pick up again, there won't be much in terms of specialty cups.  The ADBF committee will need to find new ways to keep the races exciting.
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Kibble
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2004, 04:46:19 PM »

Quote from: moturismo
So if we go by your suggestion of making it strictly hi-tech wireless, we would have the 2 Nokia teams and Telos racing.


I was more referring teams like Steamrollers -- that's a bit of a stretch.  If you look at the list of teams that entered into the Tech Cup in 2003, you have Telos, MDA, www.roli.com, Inex, etc. -- teams that are at least REMOTELY high-tech.  Then you have a team like Steamrollers that totally does not belong here!   Confused

Quote from: moturismo
In 2001, Nokia was in 2 specialty cup races.  In 2002, they were in 3 specialty cup races.  How does Nokia get into a Media cup when they're technically a hi-tech wireless team?  By taking advantage of the lax rules ...


I believe it was called the CTV Media and 'Communications' Cup.  Both Nokia and Motorola were invited to race in this one.   Wink
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DBWTim
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2004, 05:26:30 PM »

Quote from: Kibble
I was more referring teams like Steamrollers -- that's a bit of a stretch.  If you look at the list of teams that entered into the Tech Cup in 2003, you have Telos, MDA, www.roli.com, Inex, etc. -- teams that are at least REMOTELY high-tech.  Then you have a team like Steamrollers that totally does not belong here!   Confused

I find this somewhat amusing... somewhat...

As moturismo stated before the rules for entering specialty cups were either
1. Team sponsored by tech company or
2. Team comprised of x number of paddlers employed in tech industry.

I point out option 2 because the paddlers that made up the team Steamrollers fell under that option.  These rules were set by Nokia themselves when they sponsored the Cup race. Do you believe that just because your team was sponsored by Nokia, that it had more right to be there than a team that probably had more people that worked in the Tech industry than those on your own boat?

Just because it is your belief that the criteria to enter the Tech Cup should only consist of Option 1 does not mean that you say that it's a stretch Option 2 teams like Steamrollers to participate.  If you want to point fingers then maybe you should point them to Nokia themselves for setting the rules.
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Nook
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2004, 08:44:15 AM »

Kibble isn't acquainted with all the facts that's all.  Though I think she's conveniently forgetting that the Alcan officials are the ones who approve the grid for those races.

Anyhow, that particular race was a two horse race, Roli and Alpha Dragon 'Techies'.  I don't hear any gripes about Alpha being there.  I know I didn't, that was the grid & we raced it.  No complaints or excuses cuz that's just poor sportsmanship.  It was awesome both Roli & Alpha was in there, simply b/c it raised the bar.

So if you gotta gripe about Specialty Cups, gripe about something worthwhile like medals, or the lack thereof.  Just a small trophy these days.  How are you supposed to share that with the team?

Quote
Until sponsorship begins to pick up again, there won't be much in terms of specialty cups. The ADBF committee will need to find new ways to keep the races exciting.


How about the 2000m.  That was pretty brave/bold with excellant results.  Just to be able to race in that event is pretty special I think.

Another small thing, but equally memorable, is the change in type of medals they give out now.  Much more better than the painted ones from a few years back.

Then there's the Gemini's.  They should be pretty simlar to the Buk boats, so they'll be fast.
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Kibble
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2004, 09:54:35 PM »

Quote from: Nook
Kibble isn't acquainted with all the facts that's all.  Though I think she's conveniently forgetting that the Alcan officials are the ones who approve the grid for those races.


You underestimate my knowledge?!  Yeah I knew that.   Shocked

Alright, my intentions weren't to point fingers at anyone nor state that the Nokia teams have more of a right to race in it than other teams.   I'm just your typical S**T disturber...   Wink  

It just seemed a little odd that Steamrollers didn't have a more "techie" name at least.   Shocked   Wink

Even though Alcan officials are the ones who approve the grid, they don't really care that much about cup races.  As long as the logistics of the race works, (i.e. they can fit enough boats across the water) they'll be pretty lax in approving teams into the race grid anyways because the sponsors are giving them big bucks. (Especially last year -- since there was only the one Nokia Cup Race left)    

Let me just say that I made a slight boo boo up there -- It costs sponsors $8000 to sponsor a cup race, so that might also be a factor why it's not as popular.  A bit pricey for a 2.5 minute race, don't ya think?   Confused  

I believe Nokia also awarded $500 prize money to the team that won the Cup.
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DBWTim
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2004, 10:09:00 PM »

Quote from: Kibble
It just seemed a little odd that Steamrollers didn't have a more "techie" name at least.   Shocked   Wink

And I repeat... again... the rules for entering specialty cups were either
1. Team sponsored by tech company or
2. Team comprised of x number of paddlers employed in tech industry.

Is it really that hard to fathom that a team can be comprised of paddlers that work at different tech companies but are on one boat that is majorly sponsored by a restaurant chain?
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Kibble
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2004, 10:32:42 PM »

Quote from: Chaos
And I repeat... again... the rules for entering specialty cups were either
1. Team sponsored by tech company or
2. Team comprised of x number of paddlers employed in tech industry.

Is it really that hard to fathom that a team can be comprised of paddlers that work at different tech companies but are on one boat that is majorly sponsored by a restaurant chain?


Oh comon, even Alpha changed their name to Alpha Dragon "Techies" and Roli went in as "www.roli.com"   Wink
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Nook
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2004, 10:23:37 AM »

Quote
Even though Alcan officials are the ones who approve the grid, they don't really care that much about cup races


That's a smack in the face to all those that run Alcan.  I challenge you to say that to their faces.


Quote
I believe Nokia also awarded $500 prize money to the team that won the Cup.


What?!?!Where's my cut!?!?!   rofl
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DBWTim
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2004, 11:26:29 AM »

Quote from: Kibble
Oh comon, even Alpha changed their name to Alpha Dragon "Techies" and Roli went in as "www.roli.com"   Wink

I was not aware that teams had to rename themselves to something techie related to enter the Tech Cup. Would it have made you feel better if you were beat by the Steamrollers Genetically-Enhanced Burrittos rather than just Steamrollers?
I don't see you bringing up the fact that Blenz Coffee didn't change their name when they entered their Specialty Cup race in 2002.
If you really want to get technical Roli was www.roli.com because there was only one Roli team in the Tech Cup so there was no need to differentiate between the www.roli.com Dragons and the www.roli.com  Rebels.
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