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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[zephyrantes]

^^^ quite an offensive statement, colossus.   BOO!

[Colossus]

stop being such an ass

[StraightLine]

Even if the seat design of the Geminis was just modified to match the BUK design and they left the 11 benches, it would be an improvement.  The benches in the BUK at Burnaby Lake are made of wooden planks supported by a center column and ledges on the sides.  Much more leg room which is one of the chief complaints I hear about the Geminis.  Reducing the number of benches to 10 and increasing the spacing while redesigning the bench supports would be the best option.

Yes, the Geminis were probably a bad purchase, but now we're stuck with them.  Throwing away 9 boats @ $11,000 each is not an option and I suspect it would be rather difficult finding another club that would be interested in buying them.

Spending a couple of thousand dollars on refitting each boat is an expensive hit, but if it gives us a more usable boat, then I'm all for it.

StraightLine.

PS - Colossus, Zephyrantes - I don't know about everyone else, but I'm starting to get tired of your childish disputes clogging up the threads.  If it's not relevant to the topic, please take it offline.

[PaddleFunk]

Does anyone know what the plan is for retro fitting the Gemini's is?

Does it involve getting a new seat insert for the boats?  I thought part of the issue was that the current design was that the seats where integral to the structural support for the boats? 

Also if they do modify them are they going to be able to keep them consistant, part of the reason for buying the molded boats was the standardized boat design.  I would think if you deviate from the standard by ripping them apart to "retrofit" them you may have a hard time maintaining consistant performance specifications (i.e. weight, stability, buoyancy).

Maybe we can get some input from somebody involved???

Comments from DZ or FCRCC or anyone else who has Geminis

[Colossus]

PS - Colossus, Zephyrantes - I don't know about everyone else, but I'm starting to get tired of your childish disputes clogging up the threads.  If it's not relevant to the topic, please take it offline.

yessir!  (no sarcasm here, just glad someone has the balls to voice an opinion. )

[zephyrantes]

colossus: stop being so sarcastic!   Straightline was just expressing HIS opinion (eventhough that in itself was not related to this topic)

As for the Gems, can we please get an answer to all the anticipated questions?   I think that most of us tall folk are eagerly hoping/waiting/praying/wishing for the seating to be stretched out.

[PaddleFunk]

The other option would be to retrofit my legs 

[rightarm]

The other option would be to retrofit my legs 

my legs feel like they got retrofitted in the gemini last night

[Steamrollers Moaner]

http://www.watergear.de/eng/dragonboats.html

Looks like a rip off of the BUK to me...   

[AlterEgo]

Is it just me, or do the seats look really high?

[tiger]

http://www.watergear.de/eng/dragonboats.html

Looks like a rip off of the BUK to me...   

Nothing to rip off, the IDBF has a set of standards that all boat manufacturers must follow if they want their boat to be IDBF approved.  Haven't you ever wondered why they put that annoying piece of wood on the gunnel just at the right height to give you that hickey that your significant other thinks is from someone.  Well that is an IDBF standard.  Wooden seats are also part of the standard.  In the end every boat looks the same and they all have to compete on price and quality.  It also allows IDBF to mix and match boats regardless of who makes them (in theory).  The standards change all the time, I was told that prior to last year IDBF allowed 12, 11, and 10 seater boats but now they only allow 10 seaters.

Looking at the price and putting the exchange rate in I am not sure why FCRCC and Alcan would waste their money (I have heard 3K per boat) retrofitting the existing Geminis.  For 8K you can get a new one and it is not a hack job (aka if they retrofit the existing they will not be IDBF approved cause Alcan is doing it themselves or something like that).

Has anyone heard if they are retrofitting the Geminis?  If so when will this happen (not soon enough I am sure) 

[Colossus]

Has anyone heard if they are retrofitting the Geminis?  If so when will this happen (not soon enough I am sure) 

its in process, at least out of DZ.

[rightarm]

Looking at the price and putting the exchange rate in I am not sure why FCRCC and Alcan would waste their money (I have heard 3K per boat) retrofitting the existing Geminis.  For 8K you can get a new one and it is not a hack job

hmm, well based on that, i can think of a very excellent reason:  a savings of 5k per boat.  I can't see any reason why a retrofitted boat wouldn't meet the approval of IDBF; its just a standardized spec set... they boats either meet/fit within, or they don't... whoever makes them/ refits them shouldn't matter.  Now if they're retrofitting them outside the spec, that's different

[tiger]

Looking at the price and putting the exchange rate in I am not sure why FCRCC and Alcan would waste their money (I have heard 3K per boat) retrofitting the existing Geminis.  For 8K you can get a new one and it is not a hack job

hmm, well based on that, i can think of a very excellent reason:  a savings of 5k per boat.  I can't see any reason why a retrofitted boat wouldn't meet the approval of IDBF; its just a standardized spec set... they boats either meet/fit within, or they don't... whoever makes them/ refits them shouldn't matter.  Now if they're retrofitting them outside the spec, that's different

Rightarm, I think you have missed many points, just think about it.

Let's see the problems with a retrofit:

a. The boats would need to be retrofitted by an IDBF approved boat manufacturer, I don't think Alcan/FCRCC are approved boat builders to IDBF.
b. The boats are three years old, a typical boat has a life of around 5 years (that is racing life not practice life) around here.  We all cry about getting into a particular boat cause it is heavy etc especially at race time that is why I say after 5 years it is no longer a racing boat.  In addition our boats are on the water all year and thus their life span is shorter than ones in T.O. or Eurpoe where they take boats out of the water for long periods of time.  Spend 3K to get 2 years max for a non IDBF approved boat.
c.  The retrofit being done is supposedly not taking out the inset but just cutting the seats out and replacing them, somehow getting the foot holds off the bottom and them putting them back on.  Think about it, will the seal still be there after that or will some of them take on some extra water.  If they start taking on water then can you say we have a Gemini Barney boat 
d.  The retrofit is being done non DB boat maintenance types and volunteers to keep the cost down.  Now nothing against who is doing it but you typically get what you pay for, we are not paying for much labor so how reliable will the labor be and the quality of said work (not that higher paid quality if much better but it probably comes with a labor warranty)?
e. Based on looking at how retrofits have been done before, I would be very concerned about the spacing of the seats will they be the same in every boat.  If not then not fair to those teams that get the slightly off ones.  I suspect the seats and foot supports will break easier and if they do in the middle of race don't come crying to me about why did they retrofit instead of buying new ones.
f.  FCRCC and every other Canoe club in BC are buying Buk boats.  I think there will be close to 9 Buks in the area this year which is enough to replace the Geminis when racing at Alcan.

You could probably sell the existing boats to teams/clubs for $2K.  Teams/areas would love to get a practice boat for that price, not the best one but if you are just starting out why not.  If that is the case then a new boat would be around $6K and you get an approved/sealed proper boat.

I could go on about why not to spend the money but I am just a paddler so my opinion does not matter but I do think it is waste and I think you will say the same once it is all said and done.

Tig

[woodsman]

Pity the Millenium's used by GRPC aren't certified....they are a nice boat.  I have not been in a Gemini, but have paddled 6/16's and BUK's