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Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

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[Guido]

I found this site for shin guards...hope it helps.

[funger]

That too funny... I can just see all the DB teams wearing soccer shin guards.

Guess I may not be laughing after Tuesday's practice when it's my turn to give those Gemini's a go.

We'll see!

[p00py p00py]

ya, but the steersperson pretty much has an outdoor patio compared to the others....as well as our drummer almost fell out of her seat a couple of times....haha....personally, i don't know how they came up with this boat, definitely prefer the 6-16's, but c'est la vie, i'll have to get used to it.....

these boats will definitely make u do all the right things though...as chaos mentioned, u have to have ure top arm outside of the gunnel and if ure timing is off from the person in front of u, u'll find out the hard way by hitting them each time.....

[funger]

Just a follow up to my previous post... I used the new Gemini's this evening and didn't have too much problems with them.  Now mind you i'm 5 10" / 5 11"ish and in the front seat.  

I got in there and was pretty confortable right away... i Braced kinda like if i were kneeling down on the boat paddling.  So, lucky for me i didn't have the shin problem.  No the only thing 2 things I can really complain about is the tippyness of the bat espicially if one side is too heavy....  the boat kept rocking side to side which was quite annoying.  And secondly, you need to lean out a little more than normal.... so my sides are hurting a lot, and rotating is a little difficiult.

I don;t have anyone in front of me so my view is probably a lot different than having to paddle with someone in front of you.  I kinda got that impression from all the complaining and the painful sighs coming from the rest of  boat.

[jane]

bah! is all i can say

[samson]

all i can say is that it is a major pain trying to find the proper way to brace yourself in those boats. i found myself constantly shuffling in my seat

[Sunny_Daze]

We got to try out the Gemini's last night.  The first factor was getting used to the tippiness.  But once we got the weight distribution settled it wasn't a factor anymore.  But you had to make sure there was no sudden movements or bobbing on the drive.  Entering and exiting the water smoothly was key but the way it should be done anyway.  

We did some starts in the boat and man did that thing ever fly.  The races will be very exciting to watch as the Gemini's pop right out of the water even with a heavy team like ours.

I tried bracing in many different ways.  Our coach suggested both feet forward and that seemed to be the most comfortable.  But I am 5'6" (seat 3) so I am sure taller people may struggle more.

We were all frustrated with smashing our upper hands on the person in front of us.  I think once we get used to leaning out more it will come together.  Hopefully we will be able to get more practices in before the races so we can get better at that.

Another thing I noticed was everyone was so close that my timing was off.  I kept rushing the rate.  I'm not sure if anyone else experienced this but I know I was a total spaz in the boat last night.  

The Gemini boats seemed to emphasize all the errors and brought them to light because the boat is very light and responsive.  I guess if we are MORE aware of what we are doing wrong, we can correct these things which is always a positive.

But I tell ya, if I will any taller, I know it would be a struggle so I do not envy taller and bigger paddlers who are trying to get used to the Gemini's.

Just my thoughts, but I do look forward to practicing in them again to learn from my mistakes BEFORE racing in them (I hope).

Didn't someone say the Gemini's were built in Poland?  Last I remember, Poles are not small people?!?!?!?

[Colossus]

being 6'4", leg position is very awkward and uncomfortable.  i'm in seat 6, which has the most room i guess.  still hitting the person in front of me, even though both arms were outside the boat.  my reach also goes up to her knee.
we were an inch away from capsizing the boat between Monk's and the Cambie bridge when one of the guys shifted his weight from the left side to the middle.  that would have sucked.

bracing my outside leg was a real problem.  i couldn't find a comfortable position, and my legs cramped up a few times during practice.

[DBWTim]

The following is an email from the ADBF Race Director regarding the Gemini's.  Thought I'd share it with everyone.

Gemini Dragon Boats

By now, most of you have seen or paddled in the new Gemini dragon boats. The Gemini dragon boat is manufactured in Poland and is an International Dragon Boat Federation certified dragon boat. This boat is a European Dragon Boat Federation specification boat and is manufactured by different boat builders in Europe (BUK in Germany, Pel by Plastex in Poland and I believe boat builders in the UK and Italy).

All of Europe paddle in this type of boat and it is used in the IDBF World Championships, IDBF Club Crew World Championships and the European Dragon Boat Federation Championships.

The EDBF spec boat is 41 feet long and 550 lbs compared to the Six Sixteen dragon boat which is 48 feet long and 950 lbs (older Six Sixteen boats). There are also less benches on the Gemini boat, 11 benches, but in reality 10 benches should be used (the first bench left vacant).

As everyone has noticed, the seat spacing on the Gemini boat is much tighter (22 inches) than the Six Sixteen boat (26 inches). This boat requires the paddler to have a forward body lean when paddling, approximately a 5 to 10 degree forward lean. Timing is also important as this boat will magnify timing errors with more boat movement.

Foot bracing, you will have to experiment with your foot bracing. Try having your outside leg extended and your inside leg underneath you.

We will have a FAQ section on the Festival website dealing with questions about the Gemini boat.

The Alcan Regatta and the Alcan Festival will be using alternating heats of Six Sixteen and Gemini dragon boats. All Championship Finals will be in Gemini dragon boats and all Consolation Finals will be in Six Sixteen dragon boats.

Greg Lamb
Race Director
Alcan Dragon Boat Festival

Just to add my two cents (and to play devil's advocate)...  all I can say is... complain, complain, complain...

They finally bring boats that are used in the international level and all I've been hearing, online/offline, on water/offwater, is complain this and complain that.  Sure, the seats are a little tighter and you have a high chance of getting smoked in the back of your head by the person behind you. But look at it this way, how could you say that ADBF was an international-calibre event when we didn't even use internationally-certified boats? The Gemini's with their IDBF-approved specs will at least give the Vancouver festival some credibility on the international racing level. This also shows that the people in charge can see that the dragonboat races are actually for racing and not just a sideshow using 10 year old boats. I see the Gemini's as Darwin's Theory of Evolution applied to Dragon Boat racing. The good teams will adapt and succeed while the "dinosaurs" will go the way of the dodo...

It honestly isn't that bad paddling in the Gemini's... Like Guido says (and I'm paraphrasing), suck it up and paddle.

[DBWTim]

Also, here's a list of frequently asked questions...

Dragonboaters,

We wanted to give you an update on using the Geminis and any feedback we have heard from teams that have practiced in them...

1.  The boat is up to the IDBF standard.  What does this mean?  The International Dragonboat Federation (IDBF) has specific standards for boats and paddles.  The EDBF Specifications have a boat that is 41 feet long and 550 lbs.  This compares to a Six Sixteen boat which is 48 feet long and 950 lbs (older style).  In addition, the Gemini has fewer benches, 11, but in reality only 10 benches should be used (the first bench is left vacant).  When you go to a number of festivals they will use IDBF specific boats.  Now you can train in this type of boat and benefit from this when you go to other festivals.

2.  How many paddlers can I fit in the boat?  You will only be able to have 20 paddlers MAXIMUM.  If you have more than 20 paddlers there are a few methods to accommodate all of your paddlers:

a. Have 20 paddlers go out and do a lap (5km), come back into the club and do a crew change, go out and do the other part of your practice.

The main thing to remember is to plan accordingly.

3. We find the spacing to be really tight, what can we do to gain some space for our larger paddlers? The seating and placement of paddlers are important in the Geminis.  All of the teams initially found the boats to be tippier than the 6/16s and also more cramp.  If you have tall people the very back and front will be tight for them.  The Geminis are close to 7 feet shorter so the space has to come from somewhere.  These boats are more technical in nature so proper technique will help alleviate the problems of hitting the person in front of you.  Some guidelines to follow, everyone must lean together and timing are very important.

4. The steerspeople have indicated that the area where they stand can be slippery if you do not where approriate shoes, will that be fixed?  We will be installing non skid flooring in the next week or so.

5.  Can I take a Gemini for each practice (or not all)?  If you are not scheduled to take a Gemini, you are not allowed to take one.  Please respect the schedule as we are attempting to keep all of the boats in working order.  

6.  Will the Geminis be used in the Alcan DB Festival?   The Alcan Regatta and Alcan DB Festival will be using both Six Sixteens and Geminis.  The format will be even number races will use one type of boat and odd numbered races will be using the other type of boat.  All Championship races will be in Geminis.

If you have any questions or comments please forward them to us.


Alcan DB Festival

[Colossus]

Just to add my two cents (and to play devil's advocate)...  all I can say is... complain, complain, complain...

They finally bring boats that are used in the international level and all I've been hearing, online/offline, on water/offwater, is complain this and complain that.  Sure, the seats are a little tighter and you have a high chance of getting smoked in the back of your head by the person behind you. But look at it this way, how could you say that ADBF was an international-calibre event when we didn't even use internationally-certified boats? The Gemini's with their IDBF-approved specs will at least give the Vancouver festival some credibility on the international racing level. This also shows that the people in charge can see that the dragonboat races are actually for racing and not just a sideshow using 10 year old boats. I see the Gemini's as Darwin's Theory of Evolution applied to Dragon Boat racing. The good teams will adapt and succeed while the "dinosaurs" will go the way of the dodo...

It honestly isn't that bad paddling in the Gemini's... Like Guido says (and I'm paraphrasing), suck it up and paddle.

good points...  i guess it'll take a few practices for people to get used to them/comfortable with them.  changes likes these are usually for the better

[butter]

I thought I might chime in a bit on the subject after reading a few of the posts.  Just so you know, there are a couple of Gemini's over on the Island.  They belong to Ocean River.  I've seen the new boats, sat in them (haven't paddled yet, the boat was on land), and have recently raced in the BUKs in Capetown (which were from GWN).  The major difference I can see between the Gemini's and the BUK's (of a few), is the number of benches.  The BUK's only had 10 benches.  Same length boat, 1 fewer bench.  Why do these Gemini's have 11 benches?  Can someone PLEASE answer that question for me?  I heard that these boats are designed to have 10 benches, but this shipment was custom built to have 11 benches.  Is there any truth to this?  No doubt, this is why the spacing between the benches is smaller.  Why oh, why?  

Anyway, yeah, it's tight sitting.  No leg drive to speak of.  This will focus the stroke to your core.  As has been said before, "Deal with it".  At least everyone over there is getting a month's worth of practices before Alcan.  Visiting teams won't have such a luxury, best to use it to your advantage.  

Now, can anyone imagine the boys from Portland in these lovely new boats???  mmm???  Hope they know how to swim.

[paddleboy]

Ha Ha ..............we were thinkin exactly the same thing  but I can tell you the first time in them I got hit in the back of the head twice ,it was pretty funny .I now know if you stop for a second to adjust .................make sure your still leanin forward ,trust me I'm a fast learner,lol

 I also just checked out pic of gemini's racing in europe and from what I can see they all have 11 benches

[Guido]

Ok.......I've finally have decided to add one cent now...and will add another cent later....just want to clarify the seating.  

The Gemini's ARE DESIGNED WITH 11 SEATS.  If they were to be ordered with 10 seats they would have to have been CUSTOM made.  

The BUK's are custom designed with 10 SEATS by GWN in Toronto.  Mike Kirkham has them shipped in parts and then assembles them in Toronto.  The BUK does cost a couple of thousand dollars more coming from him...because he has the licensing agreement to sell them in Canada.  

The Gemini's are rocky.  They have a lower water line as compared to the Teak boats.  Thus....for the Gemini to flip you would have to ROCK from side to side a lot and/or have a HUGE wake hit you at the side of the boat at the same time as you were ROCKING.  I don't believe they will flip with people in the boat....they would most likely take on water and float to just below the water line much how like the TEAK boat does.  Now...the "big" boys will do just fine.  You don't think we have "big" boys here?  The design is just like the BUK and I'm sure they have paddled in a BUK numerous times before.  They have been used down south at different venues throughout.

Butter.....congrats on your performance at Capetown.  Was awefully proud of one of my former paddlers MPF...don't know if you know him as that but he's the one with the coffee shop in Victoria.

Paddleboy.....I thought you said you were a fast learner....and it took how many hits in the back of the head???? 2?

Stay tuned for more.........I LOVE THESE BOATS!!!!!!!!

[Steamrollers Moaner]

More leg room would definitely be better.  But with 11 seats at least an extra 2 paddlers can join the practice.  

I don't know about that.... Seat 1 is awfully cramped.  Unless the 2 people who paddle in Seat 1 is about 4'9" and weights about 85lbs.  

I believe the real Seat 1 is second seat on the boat.