[Guest]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

 

Dragon Boat Canada


IDBF


Canoe Kayak Canada

180 Guests, 0 Users

[Sun]

from the Toronto Star...

Toronto rowers slam $23M dragon boat course
Course too short to be used for any other water events

Waterfront corp. to field complaints at Thursday meeting

KERRY GILLESPIE
CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF

Some rowers and dragon boaters claim $23 million of taxpayers' money is being wasted building a watercourse that is only good for a single event.

As part of waterfront revitalization efforts, a 650-metre watercourse is being planned for the western edge of Ontario Place, near Marilyn Bell Park.

A 650-metre course isn't long enough for most canoe or rowing events, but it is long enough for dragon boating's 2006 Club Crew World Championships.

"It's the wrong course, the wrong place and the wrong distance," said Robert Blunt, a member of the Argonaut Rowing Club, Toronto's largest club.

"People are being deliberately misled," Blunt said.

Toronto's canoeists, rowers and dragon boaters have been pushing for a watercourse for more than a decade.

But now, when governments have bought in and construction is scheduled to start in August, some people are questioning whether a 650-metre course is long enough to be worthwhile.

"It's premature to say what we're doing doesn't suit their needs. We're taking advice from those groups to figure out how to meet their needs," said John Campbell, chief executive of the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corp.

The corporation is holding a public meeting Thursday night to hear from people about course design and other issues.

But the one thing that can't change is the maximum length.

"I can give them a course for zero metres or 650 metres, which would they like?" Campbell said.

The original plan was to build a course of 1,000 metres or more, but a feasibility study discovered such a distance would cost twice what the governments were willing to commit, Campbell said.

Most of the money will be used to tear down the existing breakwall and move it farther out into the lake.

The federal government has given $15 million and the city and province $4 million each for the "western beaches watercourse."

Toronto won the bid to host next summer's championships on a promise that a suitable course would be built.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`It's the wrong course, the wrong place and the wrong distance'

Robert Blunt, member

of the Argonaut Rowing Club

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

That has led to accusations that this event is all the course would be good for. An Olympic rowing race is 2,000 metres long while canoe and kayak events run at 500 and 1,000 metres.

"It's $23 million of public money for this one event," said Mike Kerkmann, who was Dragon Boat Canada's lead on the bid for the championships.

"The cheque writers need to know the truth. If they still want to build it, go ahead, but understand the legacy is just a better training facility and we'll still be lobbying for a new watercourse," Kerkmann said.

Campbell says these criticisms are way off base.

"The event is not the rationale for why we're doing it, it is the rationale for when we're doing it," he said.

Without the Club Crew World Championships it is doubtful course funding would flow at all.

Campbell agrees that in an ideal world the course should be longer, but he also sees this 650-metre course as a way to get a longer one.

"If there is an event coming up that demands 1,000 metres, we'll be able to justify the economics of an additional 350 metres a lot easier than we can rationalize the capital costs for 1,000 metres. I think you have to take what you can get."

Plans include designing the course so it can be extended later.


Some of the concerns over this course may have more to do with rowers' fears of being overrun by a growing number of dragon boaters.


Karen Pitre, a rower and the course project manager for the waterfront corporation, knows about the difficulties of rowers and dragon boaters sharing water.

"There's not enough flat water so everyone is fighting over a limited resource," Pitre said.

At the very least, though, by moving the breakwall, this new course will double the amount of flat water available: for everyone, she said.

Thursday's public meeting will be held at the National Trade Centre, Salon 103, at 6 p.m.




link to article: http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1110235812174&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037

[Photog]

wow. guess that must be like building a large Trout Lake.  

[Jing_Du]

Rowers and dragon boaters sometimes just don't recognize a good thing
when somebody hands them $23M.

The Toronto regatta course has to be rebuilt anyway, because the
adjacent breakwater by Ontario Place has outlived it useful working life
and needs to be replaced regardless.  It will come, hell or high water.

About $2M was spent upgrading the rowing course in nearby St.
Catherines Ontario, for the 1999 FISA World Championships.  
Welland Ontario is now angling for money to develop their obsolete
shipping lane into yet another race course.

Too bad there's no decent regatta course on the western coast.

[tiger]

Based on everything we have heard from down east, Toronto Island is a terrible course, Ontario Place (GWN) is a terrible course.  You need to be in the right lane to do anything otherwise you are racing for second or third.  If you are a visiting team then you can't race in the championship race since they want a local team to win.  I have heard also less than favourable things about Montreal. And then Welland is in the middle of nowhere.  I have also heard Welland has some interesting current if you happen to be there as a ship goes by??

So can someone explain a decent course cause I don't think the East has a decent course either unless you want to be in the boonies (ie Welland would be the closest).

Not that tidal water makes for a terrific course either (but it is deep enough), I am just wondering since some think the East have good courses.

[rightarm]

Being a DB paddler aside,
If i were a taxpayer in TO I would be upset that 23 million was being spent on a single sport facility which will only have small public benefit.  And yes, single sport facility because as the article states, it will not be long enough for any sanctioned competitions except dragonboating.  And let's face it, the construction of this facility is not going to cause a sudden explosion in DB participation.

It would be like building an aquatic centre intended for competitive swimming/diving competitions, making the pool 25 meters in length and having no dive tank.  Automatically you've limited the facility to one sport and only a single type of competition

[Jing_Du]

Based on everything we have heard from down east, Toronto Island is a terrible course, Ontario Place (GWN) is a terrible course.   I have heard also less than favourable things about Montreal. I have also heard Welland has some interesting current if you happen to be there as a ship goes by (?)

Eastern Regatta Course Tidbits...

St. Catherines - is subject to releases of water from a hydro dam, causing havoc in some lanes

Welland - has wide deep water on a no-longer-used ship canal but is apparently worse than Hamilton as a tourist destination if you're racing from way out of town.

Montreal - the bottom is of uneven depth and not designed for dragon boat racing; but the residents don't seem to know, mind or care.

So what are the best water courses in the west like ?  I heard that Edmonton or Winnipeg has a bend in the last 100 metres...

[Jing_Du]

MOFO

I sort of agree with you...all the public money that was spent for a luge and bobsled run for the Calgary Olympics... or the speed skating oval now slated for Richmond... these too are one-sport venues, and those 3 sports are not really what you could call 'popular with and accessible to the masses', in the same way that DB is, eh ?  

When Toronto was bidding for the 2008 summer games they had plans to overhaul their decrepit waterfront, including putting in an Olympic level rowing-canoeing course.  When those Games went to Beijing, Olympic Champions like Larry Cain (canoeing and also Cdn national dragon boat team gold medalist) and Marnie McBean (rowing) were among the supporters to try and have some of the 'promised' federal capital funds put against a waterfront course inspite of the loss of the games bid.  

The money has to be spent anyway to keep the breakwater functioning, might as well put it to a good use, like dragon boating and other recreational watersports for the masses. (?)

Rowing and flatwater canoeing both receive public money from Sport Canada; dragon boating doesn't.  Yet there's probably 100 times the number of active participants in the latter.  (And Canada consistently medals at DB.)

[rightarm]

the difference is those are elite training centres, and do in fact make those sports available to the masses who are training to be elite athletes.  of course, proximity is the limiting factor, but there is no way to get around that.  and yes canada has elite dragon boaters, many of whom if i'm not too greatly mistaken train out of the false creek clubs.  so if there were to be an elite DB training centre constructed, which at this point makes no sense because DB paddlers don't qualify for athletic income subsidies from what you're saying, it would make more sense to build it in a location where the sport is not only a well developed community, but there is the capacity to support the expansion of the sport and its profile amongst the community.  so of course, that would be here in vancouver, not toronto from what i'm gathering from the comments about current venues.  but of course, at this point i wouldn't be building an elite watersports venue dedicated just to DB, as I said I think its too limiting.  The speedskating oval in richmond will be more than just one sport.  Speed skating itself is a multi-disciplined sport with long and short track, distance and sprints. then there is skate training itself, which can and will be done there on a public level.  there will also be public facilities such as a fitness centre which will cater more to the athetlic public than the average community centre will, and yet be accessible like a public facility long term...  all things to consider.  all it really comes down to is if they're going to invest a huge chunk of money into something, it better be good for more than just one thing and only to a small population of people.

[Sun]

First of all, dragonboaters aren't complaining that someone is throwing us 23mil bucks. Only the the dumbass rowers are because they can't use it. Too bad.

Secondly, this isn't about who has the best courses, or where the national training facility should be. But if it is, then it's toronto and toronto.

And lastly, Welland is 20 mins away from a very popular strip club called Sundowners, so it's not that bad!

[Guido]

Excuse me.....I'm from the west coast....born and raised in Vancouver....
Where's Toronto? Where's Welland?....