Dragon Boat West

I just got something in an email and thought I'd bring this up to see what people thought. I, by no means, mean to stir up trouble...



Of the discussion was the fact that many paddlers have been "jumping" ship so he/she could be on a better team, instead of trying to help develop the team year after year. I want to hear what people think about the whole "Jumping Ship" phenomenon that has been taking place in recent years.

On an aside, I do not agree with the comment regarding GM/Roli since teams such as Alpha Dragons (made up of some former TD Thunder paddlers) and the Portland Mixed (some Kai Ikaika as well as other Portland teams) were there to replace the missing TD Thunder and Kai Ikaika.

I agree with the quote, because instead of having 2 top contending teams (Thunder and Civil Serpants) there was only 1 (Alpha). And it's not about replacing, it's about expanding, thus more competition.

I can't vote, my preference isn't there.  :lol:
I would leave my team for another if the team was getting too anal, the practice schedule was not compatible, or if my health (back and muscles) were not to the standards of my current team.

True, I guess I should've stated that I don't agree with quote because I believe that Roli did improve and not because of the
"believed" lack of competition.  Alpha ended up 4th Overall in Alcan 2003. Last year, Thunder and Civil were 1st and 9th.  Roli on the other hand came in 3rd in 2003 and in it's previous year as GM and Roli they were 10th and 31st, respectively. I'm guessing I'm just saying that Roli improved more than Alpha....
If my logic is faulty... I blame it on the lack of coffee this morning and the lack of sleep last night...

Not bad... 3rd post and 2 users in this thread and it's already off-topic... :wink:

Who cares about winning?  Sure, it's nice to be #1 and all, but IMNSHO it's the getting there that's the important thing.  I'd rather stick with the same team year after year and work together to improve rather than whore myself off to the best 'team of the year'.  

It's great that we got that 1st place finish in Portland but when I see that medal hanging I don't think about the race; I think about the road trip down there (which was almost spent sardined in monkey's Subee), walking around downtown Portand, browsing through Powells bookstore, getting burritos for lunch that were so big you had to split them between two people, getting pictures with the rain man statue, and hanging out with our Multnomah 'guide' for 40-50 mins at the mall while the girls were shopping in Victoria's Secret (no, they wouldn't give us a show, we asked).  

To sum up, if all I got out of this sport was a gold medal, I wouldn't be here.

>who cares about winning?

Everyone

Because you are competing in a race.  And because everybody who races, wants to win.

There is a reason why Dragon Boat competitions have over a dozen opportunities to win medals (Alcan = comp a,b rec a,b,c,d,e, mens, womens, specialty), it's because everyone wants to win something.
All those categories are an acknowledgement to that fact.

It's a fantastic feeling to put your blood, sweat & tears into training, and come out with a good result in the end.  (the biggest rush i ever had was coming in 2nd place.  we got smoked by E.Hamber, but our 2nd 'win' was simply euphoric)

  As you alluded to, there is simply more to it than winning.  Camaraderie, sense of accomplishment, challenge, beer, just being alive (reference: all cancer survivor teams) & community.  All equally as important.


I think you might have been talking about a "winning at all costs" mentality?  For sure that is not the way to go imo.  I've seen it before, it's definately not fun and will do more harm than good in the end.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about- people who need to win so badly that they'll leave their team for a "better" one.  Going for gold is definitely important though, if you're not giving 100% you are only hurting your team.  (I'm not talking you specifically, but anyone in general :wink: )

Actually this is pretty interesting,

can someone accurately describe what they mean by jumping ship?  in what capacity?  permanently?  temporarily?  half-way through season?  beginning season?

I can't speak for Chaos, but I assumed he was talking about people leaving their team permanently.  Leaving your team before a season starts simply so you can join a "better" team seems wrong to me... leaving it part-way through the season for the same reason is much worse.

Yup, that's pretty much the definition of "Jumping Ship".

It comes from the idea is that the crewman (the paddler) believes the ship (the team) is sinking so he/she bails out of the sinking ship to man another sturdier ship.

ahh.. the unspeakable dishonor


Well it isn't pleasant of course, b/c that's the paddler's way of saying "this team sucks", and no one wants to hear that.  

Although that may not always be the case (ie, schedule, committment issues, familial ties).  So for the sake of argument, I'll stick to the 'leave a team for greener pastures' train of thought.



Sooo... let me ask two questions,

1. What of free choice?

2.  And would it not be a benefit to the team for that person to leave, if they don't want to be there?

People can do what they want, of course, no one else can tell them otherwise.  If they feel leaving their team for a "better" team is the right thing to do then more power to them.  I personally think it's sad they would leave their friends and teammates for a gold medal.


Absolutely.  As the saying goes, there's no "I" in TEAM.   :lol:

lol! my friend's exgf said it best when she said to him, "You're free to do whatever you want. And we're free to think whatever we want. If you're going to act like an *********, we're going think of you as an *********"

(and after she said this, cheering errupted... from all the strangers in the packed restaurant ear-shot from her.)

Yes and no.  I'd be happy for them that they're able to compete at a level that is right for them, but saddened that the team lost someone who set a high standard and could motivate the team to aim higher.  With the appropriate dedication, coaching, and team spirit, a Rec D team could become a Competitive team in time- but not if their best paddlers keep leaving for better teams.

team philosophy: does the team look to win at all costs? or is the point of the race to get to the finish line with every single member together? if the "win" is the most important aspect of DB, how can you not expect the superstars to abandon their team for a team that will produce MORE wins?

That's it!!! I'm Leaving the forum!!! (that's my way of saying it sucks)
Just joking guys.  :lol:

Woohoo!! One step closer to having the highest active post count!!

Damn.  :cry:


 :D

I say let 'em go and good riddance if they want that gold medal so bad.  If the person is already contemplating of switching teams, their heart/committment is no longer with their current team, so why keep them around to disrupt the morale/chemistry/harmony of everyone else?

If the person was dedicated to the team and was skilled enough, they should be working on improving the rest of the team, and not looking for an easy ride to a gold medal.  There's no point in trying to keep a "good/skilled" paddler on a team that they don't want to be on, whether it be at the beginning or the middle of the season.

Here's wrench: what if the said person was the coach, captain, or founder of the team? :idea:

Oooo... I was gonna mention something about that, but since you like playing devil's advocate.   :P   If the said person was only the coach, then it would be not so good, but not devastating because coaches can be replaced.  If the person was the team captain, then you'll have a major blow to team morale, but still survivable because you could promote someone else.  If the person was a team founder, then start looking for another team.  I see a few teams where only 1 or 2 people wear all 3 of these hats, and if that's the case, then if they leave, the team is lost unless there's a strong core of "senior" team members who are willing to take over.  Regardless, it would be a major detriment to the team as a whole.  

The way I see it, the founder/captain's job is to give the team a goal, a focus, "a vision for the future" as it were (I know, I know, it's getting melodramatic :oops:), and it's their job to keep the team on track.  If the team founder was the one looking to jump ship, then the team may as well be dissolved.

Honestly, the founder is of little importance unless he/she takes part-responsibility of the team since anyone can really start up a team.  Maintaining one is the hard part.
The team must have a common goal that everyone agrees on.  If not then you have different people pulling the team in different directions... and that leads the team nowhere.  The team has to pull together to go anywhere.  That is why the captain and the coach are so important since these people are responsible for setting the tone for the team.  It falls to them to set the example. I do feel that if the team has an unsuccessful season, it falls squarely onto their shoulders for that same reason.  It is their responsibility to make sure all is right on the boat... and if they fail in that regard then they are more harm than good for the team. If that is the case, then maybe it would be a better idea to find a more capable coach/captain.

I agree with Photog.  It would need to be more of a personality fit (or misfit) for me to believe that jumping ship would be acceptable.