Dragon Boat West

The race grids for this weekedends regatta are up:

Sat AM: http://dragonboatbc.ca/docs/2009/DragonZoneRegattaGridSatAM.pdf
Sat PM: http://dragonboatbc.ca/docs/2009/DragonZoneRegattaGridSatPM.pdf
Sun AM: http://dragonboatbc.ca/docs/2009/DragonZoneRegattaGridSunAM.pdf

If this weather holds, it will be a great weekend for racing.

Good luck to all.

Anyone got Saturday's results? Any surprises? Any upsets? Do tell. DO TELL!  :lol:

See the following links for the Saturday AM and PM results of the DragonZone regatta.  Heats were run in either Gemini boats or BUK's.

SAT AM Results (http://members.shaw.ca/dragonboatwest/results/2009/DragonZone Regatta Results SatAM.pdf)

SAT PM Results (http://members.shaw.ca/dragonboatwest/results/2009/DragonZone Regatta Results SatPM.pdf)

Sat AM - A Final for Competitive Division
1. Masters of D'Zone
2. Sudden Impact
3. Dragon Hearts Magnum
4. Without Warning
5. Swordfish
6. Superslim Phat Phish Racing

Sat AM - B Final for Competitive Division
1. Eye of the Dragon
2. Lifescan
3. Riptide
4. Red Fusion
5. Team Storm
6. Banana Fusion

Sat AM - C Final for Competitive Division
1. VO2Max
2. Team Vortex
3. RGL
4. Ready, Jet, Go!
5. How Wet Can You Get?
6. Dogwood Nothin Dragon

Sat AM - D Final for Competitive Division
1. RaceFace
2. PCL Centurions
3. Booze Cruise
4. Vancity Thunder
5. Scott's Ahead of Schedule
6. Dogwood Nothin Dragon Too


--------------------------------------------------------------

Sat PM - A Final
1. Team Uproar
2. Concord Pacific Flying Dragons
3. FORTified
4. Dragon Hearts Beat
5. The Eh Team
6. Metro Vancouver's 44 Cheeks

Sat PM - B Final
1. Gung Haggis Fat Choy
2. hmmm SEA MONSTER
3. Chlliwack Crusaders
4. OarDeal
5. DragonboatZ: Dragons of Doom
6. Miller Thomson

Sat PM - C Final
1. CC Riders
2. FC Grandragons
3. Team Momentum
4. uniPHARM Spirit Dragons
5. Concord Flying Dragons Too
6. Golder Water Warriors

Sat PM - D Final
1. Saints Preserve Us
2. Sea-Gee-A's
3. Sisters in Sync
4. Dragon Zone Twisted Hips
5. Off Balance
6. Dragon Hearts Go-ju Go

Man those are some pretty crazy results. There are team names I have never seen before! It would seem that the majority of the finals were almost on par for where the teams ended up and/or expected to be. Except maybe Eye of the Dragon. I would say they belonged in the A final as their time in their B Final beat the 6th place team in A Final and they were in a gemini. And in the A final first to fifth were about 4 seconds apart, except for the last place team. Oh well that is how racing goes I guess... Good job to Masters, SI Black and Magnum for coming in 1, 2 and 3.

Ditto for the Afternoon races Bernman

Almost a repeat to Eye of the Dragon in the morning regatta, in the afternoon Gung Haggis Fat Choy placed 1st in B Final by about 10 seconds, and beat the 6th place A Final team's time - despite being in a Gemini.

All I can say, is our second race did not go smoothly.  We made adjustments for the final, and they all worked.  That's racing.

Great to see the final morning races.  Good to see new teams out there. 

Also nice that teams were pretty well divided into Comp/Rec A in the morning, and Rec + Novice in the afternoon.  It helped make all the heats a lot closer, with a few exceptions.  I hope these pre-seeded divisions can be incorporated into more Festivals... like the old Comp, Rec and Novice divisions at Alcan pre-2002.  All the races were tighter, and its more fun racing when the teams are beside each other instead of spaced so far apart.

Runaway bananas (ie. not a full boat) is so uncool.

:(

The morning racing was great.. lots of close races and so really well run.


I have to disagree with you Bernman.... I love Eye of the Dragon, but if they belonged in the A final then they would have placed in the top 3 in their semi...

Yes there were some crazy results. For one thing there was strong tide and the wind. But I have a suspicion that only one of the Gemini's was clean. A couple weeks ago we scratched the bottom of the red/yellow one on a rock at low tide. It was flipped up on the dock for quite a few days to inspect it. I assume they cleaned it (it looked clean). I saw it in Lane 2 in the Gemini heats. Check the results of the same teams (one racing in Lane 2 Gemini) versus those same teams racing each other again in other heats.

Heat 1 Gemini
Team LifeScan 2:24.7 (Lane 2 Gemini)
Without Warning 2:25.5
Swordfish 2:32.3

Heat 6 Buk
Without Warning 2:11.5
Swordfish 2:21.4
LifeScan 2:29.9

Hmm, LS beats WW by 1 second and SF by 7 then gets beat by WW and SF by 18 and 8.


Another set

Heat 3 Gemini
Dragon Hearts Magnum 2:24.8
Red Fusion 2:28.8 (Lane 2 Gemini)
SuperSlim Phat Phish Racing 2:41.0

Heat 6 Buk
Dragon Hearts Magnum 2:19.1
SuperSlim Phat Phish Racing 2:22.8
Red Fusion 2:25.0

Red beats Phat by 12 and then loses by 2.


Another set

Heat 7 Gemini
Dogwood Nothin Dragon 2:39.0 (Lane 2 Gemini)
How Wet Can You Get? 2:41.8
Ready, JET, Go! 2:44.1

C Final Gemini
Ready, JET, Go! 2:26.1
How Wet Can You Get? 2:34.8
Dogwood Nothin Dragon 2:45.5

Dogwood wins by 2 and 5 then loses by 19 and 10.


Another set

Heat 8 BuKs
Red Fusion 2:25.0
Eye Of The Dragon 2:28.8
Banana Fusion 2:29.9

B Final Gemini
Eye Of The Dragon 2:22.0 (Lane 2 Gemini)
Red Fusion 2:38.0
Banana Fusion 2:46.1

Eye is in the middle of the Fusions by a couple seconds in the semi then win by 16 and 24 in Lane 2 Gemini. We had a good race but it doesn’t explain the huge spread.

In the afternoon Lane 2 Gemini finished 1st in 5 of the 6 heats, winning by an average of more than 10 seconds even though Lane 3 and 4 were seeded higher or finished higher in previous races an hour earlier.

It's not often that a team beats you by 2 seconds and then you beat them by 12 seconds an hour later. In our final we wouldn’t have beat Riptide and Lifescan by 12 seconds if it was even. We’re pretty evenly matched with those teams (and they’ve been beating us lately).

There wasn’t much tidal flow by 11:00. I'd bet money on the Gems being dirty except Lane 2. I’m not sure about the BuKs. Something to consider.

 :Wow what an afternoon.Regatta was well run,races on time and very competitive.

Did anyone notice the team in lane 1 in the 'A' Final???That would be THE EH TEAM.

When was the last time this team made it to a 'A' Final???Probably  never.

I have to admit I am a member of the team and so proud of what we have

accomplished over the last year.To go from the uaual last in the heat finishes

to where we are now is amazing. The credit must go to our coach,Pat P.

Who has been around False Creek for years.She has taught us how to paddle

correctly and as a team.but most of all she has taught to believe in our

selves.For a group of Seniors we have now become slimmer,Fitter and healthier.

Thanks to all the people that volunteered their time for the rest of us to have

such a great day.I must add that we able to do all three races in BUK's

i heard that the reason why eye of the dragon was in the B finals was b/c they were penalized in an earlier race. is this true? does anyone have the details? i think they should have made it to the A finals. i am always impressed with that team....great timing and good power too.

as for the EH team, yes, our team has noticed how well you've been doing the past couple of years. congratulations! looks like the hard work is paying off.

EOTD didn't make the A finals because we weren't top 3 in the semi. There's no problem there. The B final was the right place for us to be.

It would have been good if the B Final was fair though, and all the Gemini races for that matter. We definitely aren't 3 boat lengths faster than the other teams that were in B. We didn't deserve to win by 12 seconds, or necessarily even win at all. That was my point. We had a clean boat and they didn't. It looked good for the documentary crew though so thanks to random chance for that.

Take the Gemini results with a grain or two of salt. Maybe all the results if the BuKs weren't cleaned either.

Other than that it was a well run regatta. It was on time or ahead of time, the results were posted quickly and the volunteers were great.

My team cleaned all of the Geminis three weeks ago on the same afternoon, including the red boat. All of the boats should have looked like the red boat's underside, which was free of debris last week. Maybe something else is up with the Gems, but cleanliness shouldn't have been much of a factor.

The results definitely doesn't make the Gemini's balances look good. I hope it'll be resolved when the real festival rolls around, otherwise it could disrupt the competitive scene by a fair margin. Is there any plan to take a closer look at it?

Good races out to all teams. :)

I will agree with Dan Hebert.  The results for the #2 Gemini look a bit fishy.

Remember that newcomers to dragon boat races always watch the races and wonder why boat #3 or #4 is always winning on the Saturday at the Alcan Dragon Boat Races?

Usually the seeding order for teams goes lane 3, 4, 2, 5, 1, 6, 7 - or something like that.
So that the top teams - most expected to win, will be in the middle lanes #3, #4.

Lane 2 Gemini came first 3/6 on Sat AM
Lane 2 Gemini came first 5/6 on Sat PM
If Lane 2 Gemini didn't come first, Lane 3 always came first (where the top seed normally should be)

BuK Boats
Sat AM first place results were: lanes 1, 5, 1, 3, 3, 5
Sat PM First place were lanes 3, 5, 1, 3, 3, 5,

5/12 1st place in lane 3
4/12 1st place in lane 5
3/12 1st place in lane 1

Certainly, more finishes in lane 3 - but nothing sticking out like a significant 10 second differences for teams.

and YAY for the Eh Team...
they are my FAVORITE Seniors team, and when I become a senior, they will be my first choice to race with!

Overall it was a good weekend to work on technique, race strategy, and have fun.  Thanks Bernie for the kudo's and we look forward to paddling with and against Magnum (they have really stepped up this year and deserve the praise and results) and Master's of the Dragon Zone.  We'll see if these two older crews can keep this crew (Magnum) in check  :shock:. 

Gearing up for Alcan ... should be an awesome event.

Also a big thanks to Eric Hamber Eternal Dragon for all their help yesterday.  Our junior program has been a struggle this year but with a few helping paddlers from Eric Hamber we manged to pull off a 3rd place finish in the A Finals on Sunday Morning.

Thanks everyone.

PS: Ben!  Where are the pics?  I'm trying to convince my SI Black team to use me as a caller instead of a paddler! I think I got a whole new career ahead of me!

"and YAY for the Eh Team...
they are my FAVORITE Seniors team, and when I become a senior, they will be my first choice to race with!"

Thanks Gunghaggis ! The EH TEAM is my FAVOURITE too !! I have to admit that I'm a bit biased though. I paddle with them. Hopefully, I'll still be around when you get there !

The Gemini boats should have been cleaned the day before the races. With the hot weather we have had over the last three weeks, the growth on the Geminis (and the BUK's) will grow very fast. The FCRCC boats were cleaned by the Grandragons the day before the FCRCC regatta and the times in those races reflect that.

...So you sandbag the semi, get into a lower division, then smoke the competition.  Yeah, that works too. :wink:

isn't sandbagging when a team deliberately loses?  i don't think that's what EOTD did (i can think of many teams that may have tried this and Eye definitely isn't on the list) and this thread's topic is discussing why some boats resulted with significant difference in times. 

This thread sort of went that way, but someone did mention that the Eye should have been in the "A" final...


And the coach of EOTD did respond to that query...


So I'm thinking that my comment is still applicable to the thread.


Yes, that's what sandbagging is.  Now, just to clarify here, I have paddled with the Eye for seven years and this year, the team went into a new direction that I didn't fit with, so I was asked to resign (I did, but I'm not the only one).  Sour grapes?  Yup, that's me, 100%!


I would agree with you on that, but did you see their semi race at Deep Cove?  Can we say leisurely-paddle-on-a-sunny-afternoon?  It was appalling.  They didn't even try.

Now, a respected member of the dragon boat community notes that maybe they should have been in the "A" final in a subsequent regatta.  See a pattern here?  I am.

Let's look at their options (remember that the cameras are rolling...!).  You're in the semi final for top division.  Option one is you go all out, advance to the top finals, and end up getting spanked by False Creek and company.  Or, you go one down and win a nail biter (or a smoker).  When this documentary goes up on the screen, which is better?  Visual, they win their race?  Or a big long voice over explaining why finishing last in a race against some of the top teams is a good thing?  I'm thinking the first option is the way to go.

When I paddled with the Eye, it was about being good.  Now, I'm thinking, maybe they are about looking good.

It seems there are more than a few people on this thread with sour grapes....

As for whether EOTD sandbagged the semi to get into the B division is clearly a non-issue... only the top three boats from each semi qualified for the A final and for the past several years EOTD have not been in the same class as their semi's 3rd place team, Sudden Impact Black.

I think I'll let the previous posts be and get back to the original point.

It finally makes sense to me why the red Gemini in Lane 2 was about 10 seconds faster than the others in the regatta.

Here's another example from Sunday in case you aren't already convinced. 

Heat 4 BuK
The Young and Foolish beat VT Conquest by 0.4 seconds.

Heat 7 Gemini
VT Conquest in Lane 2 red Gemini beat The Young and Foolish by 12 seconds.

C Final Gemini
The Young and Foolish in Lane 2 red Gemini beat VT Conquest by 10 seconds.

Anyone that got the red Gemini had a faster boat. And madcap solved the problem (thanks madcap!). The Gemini’s were cleaned 3 weeks ago, all but the red one were put back in the water. The red one was left on the dock for a couple of weeks to check out the scratched bottom. The other boats were already collecting a thin film. I didn’t realize that a few weeks was enough time, but like madcap says, in the warm weather it doesn’t take long. A thin film is enough to make a big difference. Mystery solved.

The boats have to be cleaned at the same time and as close to racing as possible.

Sandbagging definitely isn't an issue if we're dealing with a boat that gives 12 seconds advantages, consistently for most of the weekend. No offense, but Lifescan isn't in the same class as Without Warning either, but it shouldn't take until the end of the final to realize that a team's being put in a division far too tough for them. I would say it's a serious issue for the competitive scene where the differences between divisions can be less than ten seconds, especially when it can wreck the fairness in division-deciding and medal races.

I hope there will be plans to re-clean all the Gem and BUKs before Alcan, and I'll volunteer gladly if you need hands. Any know if there's such plan to do it?

Red Fusion will be cleaning the boats over the next week. The BuKs will be tackled before the weekend, while the Gems will be handled on Saturday afternoon. This should ensure that the two types of boats will be evenly 'clean' for the festival.

Our team does a good job of cleaning the boats with nothing but our arms and a bit of elbow grease. If anyone wants to help, we'll be on the docks on Saturday.

EOTD sandbagging makes about as much sense as donkey foreclosure restaurant.

What time are you going to be cleaning them Saturday?

And I'm sure that whoever said EOTD was sandbagging was kidding.

We will start cleaning the boats from 12 PM onwards.

The 3 FCRCC BuKs will be cleaned on June 18 by the Grandragons. They were last cleaned on the Thursday before the Regatta.

I had no idea that boats were cleaned by dboat volunteers.  i thought boats were cleaned by a hired company or barnacle-eating magical unicorns.

thank you to all the volunteers for your time and labour involved in scrubbing these boats. 

You are most welcome, Mo.   But we are not completely altruistic.

For years the Grandragons have cleaned the six FCRCC boats monthly, and before races. In return, FCRCC waives the "Senior's" charge for the second boat that we use in practices.

Everyone benefits; FCRCC gets their boats reliably cleaned in "non-prime time"; and we save a few $$.

Dan: If you have ever cleaned a dragonboat that has been sitting in the False Creek waters for three weeks of solid sunshine and red tides, there is more than a "film" on the bottom. Try barnacles, and strange funny sand dollar looking creatures. Olde One can elaborate on the gunk and corruption collected on dragonboats in False Creek, as his team (Grandragons)has been doing this for ten years.....

Dirty Gems???!!Slimy Buks???!?!?!?
I am sorry...but none of them compare to the ancestor of all these boats....BARNEY!
Purple , Happy, slower than the line up at the beer tent in Victoria and less glide than a DB pulling a tire....
I say we bring back 6-16's and at least we know which ones are pigs!
And besides, they are good in crazy water (like Kelowna!)

I almost want to learn to clean a dragonboat just to see those strange funny creatures. :D

Wow some interesting threads going on here.  This is almost better than watching a soap opera ... NOT that I do that or anything ......  :shock: .... ackward ....  :P

I said it last year and I will say it again.  Why can we not have our premier event in our Dragon Boat Community - Alcan run with only BUK's?  There must be enough BUK's around to get 16 for Alcan.  I know that two BUK's at Cultus Lake are just sitting idle that weekend and have been used in the past by Water's Edge and will be used in the future at Harrison this year. 

I know that Burnaby has a few, although I don't know if they are being used.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  We have this International Event but we have two different style of boats being used that can effect times and position.  For many teams this is their premier event for the season. 

I just don't get it but then again look in the archive and you'll see that I've written about this before.

 

This is a question I am wondering about as well, anyone able to explain the reason why we cant achieve this for RTADBF?
I know Colossus has a pretty good idea on how to get this done and it sounds feasible.


Are you referring to seeing the "barnacle-eating magical unicorns"? lol!

Doesn't Deep Cove have a couple of BUKs to spare as well?

I have a feeling it has to do with logistics that we can't have an all-BUK Alcan. Considering that the Gems are already in False Creek water and we have too many of them, it's a lot less hassle to simply use them than to gather BUKs from all over the region, load them into trailers, drive them to Festival, clean them, and when it's all done, drive every single BUK back to their original places. (I'm sure gas will factor into it.) It's also going to take a lot of manpower if it's to be done close to the festival without disrupting their users' practices.

Yes, I'm all for an all-BUK Alcan festival and just about every competitive paddlers I know prefers BUK over it. This is really important especially we're using qualifying heats' time to determine separate comp teams from rec teams. Even if when using differential time, the differences between the boats still can potentially affect those teams bordering Rec A and Comp D. For now, I guess we'll have to wait for the Gem to start wearing out and become the new 6-16.

Oh Ben,  you just made Humpty & Dumpty start pulling at their mooring ropes ,

The Sunday results are up now on the Alcan site.  Eric Hamber finished first in the A final and TD Lightning took first in the B Final.  The results show that the A and B finals were in BUK, while the C and D were in Gemini.

http://dragonboatbc.ca/racing-downloads.html

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