Dragon Boat West

Hi all.

Now that a few days have come and gone since the festival ended this past weekend I wonder if anyone has anything to say about the racing side of things. All comments are welcomed. What did you like about the weekend's racing side of things? What did you not like about it and what would you recommend to change about it to make it better? Is there anything that needs to be changed? I am just asking for this info so that I may be able to relay it back to the race management team. Thank you for your time and consideration.  :)

this alcan was pretty amazing this year.. !!!...

still kind of wished they huddled every team together for the award ceremony instead of just the team getting it.. !!

Just awesome.... every race is neck and neck.

It'd be nice if there was a water station for the paddlers. Especially down by the marshalling area. After our first race, we were so parched, and then realized we had a 20 min. hike to get back to the tent to get the water. Then I saw an event person walk by with a large cooler of water on ice. I ran over, asked (almost begged) if I could have one, and she quickly replied that they were only for the volunteers. I was pretty blown away. I ended up weaseling a free Red Rain (didn't have to try very hard, and I got 2) just for something to wet my lips..and we passed it around! Also, speakers in the paddlers village (if it's possible to get them that far into the "refugee camp"!) We missed alot of things because we didn't know they were happening. Like the carnation ceremony..didn't have a clue until we were walking out to our next race and we saw all the carnations in the water.  :?

BUT..despite those to draw backs..this was my very first Alcan..and it was great!!! (other than those awful Gemeni's! They are the devil!! lol) I've never seen so many spectators, raced against so many people at once or had such great food at a regatta before! Especially loved the free razors..hehe Maybe next year, I'll make sure to have a bus pass..so that I can get to the marshalling area faster..lol

It being my first RTA Dragon Boat Festival ... I had no expectations at all... but man was I floored. From the treamendous growth and development of our team (our 1st year), the immense size of the festival, the comraderie of all the teams near and far... truly a weekend not to forgot nor to be missed for future years to come!

NOW, that my team is in the interim, I'm on the prowl for a team looking for a left side paddler or even a steersperson (Certified @ DZ).
Just toss me into a team with a pfd and I'll paddle you to victory!

Paddles up!

Good call Kryssee!!  Water in the marshalling area would've been good.

I was in the beer garden on Sunday and I noticed that they expanded the area after the G&G race.  This was awesome to make the extra room so that those paddlers could get in and enjoy a brew or two after their effort.

Other then that, awesome racing everyone.  Tough, tough, tough...the way it ought to be!

Lots of positives:

- stiff competition
- great race course, lots of markers
- excellent starter woman
- results were posted quickly
- friendly volunteers
- pretty good for viewing
- the beer garden was excellent, make it even bigger next year

One down side was the confusion over the awards ceremonies, most teams just grabbed their medals with no fan fare. Also it was pretty crowded on the sidewalk by Cirque, maybe they shouldn't have had vendors there, put them in the grassy area where there's more room.

The racing side was excellent, I can't believe with so many races that it ran pretty much on time the whole weekend. Well done.

Of course, they had to make room for this year's bigger beer bong!!
What a terrific job by the organizers and volunteers; as usual, a very well-ran festival.
Minor quibbles regarding having easier access to drinking water at the site, lack of speakers in paddlers village, etc, but it is tough to find things to complain about this year.
We Calgarians had a terrific time.

Some has already been mentioned, but i'll repeat them again.

Pros:
- Starter woman was definitely great. you can expect her to say the same things everytime (read: professional)
- Dock volunteers was awesome! Thanks for bailing water from the boats whenever possible.
- Super quick results posting!
- Good amount of race markers. a couple more would be nice.
- Decent race play by play by the radio/tv guys.
- Nice to see the very classy sportsmanship from CRC, even if they did beat us in the race. I wonder if the guy shook the girl's hands longer haha

Cons:
- The water ref defending the actions of "experienced" steersperson. very unprofessional.
- Award ceremonies? what award ceremonies? oh wait, u get a box of your medals and off you go. my team waited approx an hour after the supposed 5PM awards ceremony.
- Sidewalk by the cirque was definitely a bottle neck at the most inopportune times. trying to get to the marshalling area was like dealing with traffic jam, trying to run and not poke other people with your paddles.
- Definitely NEED a water station near the marshalling area, you get really parched when you have back to back races. (ie. comp race then mens race, and for some, guts and glory right after)
One lovely volunteer managed to sneak us 2 bottles of water meant for volunteers. she was heaven sent.
- Speakers in the racers village could be a plus. i'm debating the need for knowing what's going on vs being able to rest in the tents quietly (sorta)
at times, the racers village felt like an actual village, coz u dont know what's happening until someone from the outside world (aka outside the racers village) tell you so.
- I know its not going to happen, but phasing out the Geminis for all BUKs would be awesome! =P

All in all, AWESOME Alcan with tight races and great weather!

excellent race weekend, and definitely lots of positives. Only confusion was some details about the paddlers party/beer garden. Like what the tickets were for and who was taking them. But otherwise, a very good time and CRC once again came through with their new and improved beer bong :P
definitely a great weekend and I would second the the idea of getting rid of the geminis :)

Congrats to whoever planned the race site this year, no sarcasm! It must have been hard to be given a small race site, with a giant circus taking half of it, dealing with everyone's ...irritable attitudes.. and above all doing this all for the 20th Alcan anniversary. What a feat  :shock:

The awesomes:
- Race starter was very professional and everything was fair.
- Jen Breakspear allowing us to strap a banana on the dragon's head is a plus.
- Everyone was in very good spirit. No teams talk down to other teams (that I know of) very good sportsmanship all around
- Very fast results postings.
- Things were overall very smooth and had a good vibe to it. Sucks I missed out on the beatles tribute concert, though.
- Volunteers did a sweet job in not only docking but other things that people don't realize, like picking up after us messy racers :) and helping us find the occasional lost glove, etc.
- To pull everything together in time... props to Leah and co. for their efforts. GREAT Alcan this year!


The not-so-awesomes:
- I know it's hard to cram in the entirety of Alcan into that small space we were given, but why would they put the "free giveaway" stands right along the north shore of False Creek? The skinniest walkway on site? They could've put the free giveaways near the stage, where it's wide and open
- I'm not sure why they closed off the west side of Science World, but I wish they hadn't done that. I'm sure thousands would've had much better photo/video opportunities if it wasn't closed off. Very frustrating. Of course they probably had a good reason for it...
- The half-tents. Luckily we knew the 4 teams that were around us so it was okay to share a bit of territory when the other teams aren't there. But i was just imagining if we were sandwiched between 2 teams we didn't know, and after coming back from a race, seeing one or both teams stepping on all of our belongings. Or what's worse, "permanently picking up" something that isn't theirs.
- Nobody cared about the random tents jutting out everywhere. And chairs. And FRUIT TABLES for goodness sake.
- Unclear on how to get the medals (do we.. wait for an announcement? Go to the area after we know we won our race? do we stand on that stage? do we pick up the box and hand them out at the tent?)
- Gemini dragonboats... why are they still here? Who's with me: one day we'll break into Pogue, FCRCC and DZ, and sink all the gems we can find.


Could improve by:
- Not putting free sample tents at poor locations
- Providing a water station for racers and volunteers alike
- Not really putting a speaker, (as some teams prefer to sleep in peace) but maybe a giant whiteboard at the entrance of Racer's Village announcing which heats are...
a) racing
b) marshalling
c) premarshalling
They don't even need to list the teams that are in each heat, as the captains/managers of the teams should take care of it. It's easy to change anyway, and the announcer at the entrance of the village could just put them up when she gets the info that the next heat is starting. Also teams that know they're up soon would be leaving anyway to warm up or listen for their name by Dragonzone. The announcer at the village was awesome though.
- Giving 2nd and 3rd place ribbons to the consolation heats. A 2nd place in C consolation gets nothing, but a 2nd place in D champ gets something...

ah well the thrill of the race was good enough for us :)

Anyway, ill finish my complaints.

UNTIL NEXT SEASON, FOLKS  :P

Overall very impressed. I thought it was a very well run event, especially given its size. Excellent competition, races ran on time, marshalling area was well organized and efficient, good crew of volunteers on the docks, great location for the beer garden, the organizers getting the sun to shine, etc, etc.

Minor complaints: location of the paddlers village and the bottle neck getting to and from (I realize this was probably a one off); no medal ceremony; the delay starting the "guts and glory".

I'll agree with much of the positive, and also some of the not so good stuffs. Getting from racer's village to marshalling was practically hell on Sunday, with the crowded walkway and blistering sun. It's already hard enough that it's a good distance further than ever before, but having all those stands plus bleachers and speakers alongside is just asking for overcrowding. Gemini are still here, and that's not so good when entry into competitive from recreation is based on time. Either find a way to compensate for the different boat or make it so that if rec teams have a shot at comp, they all race the same bot instead.

I think the delay was something unpreventable.  Giant whale sized boat in the way :(

i think this is one of the better alcan festivals ive been to in my 6 years of paddling.   no real complaints at all...just a few suggestions.  

1.  a huge screen for live races, replays, and finish times similiar to the harrison hot springs festival a couple of years ago.  (im sure its likely very expensive for it but hey, you have to admit, its pretty cool)  

2.  a water station is a great idea!

3.  one medal awarded for the consolation round.   there was past talk on this forum regarding this issue and whether or not there should be medals issued or not.  i say compromise.  how about just ONE medal being awarded, winner takes all.   this way, at least there is still something to race for in that final race.  

4.  no extra tents/tables/chairs allowed in the walkways.  

5.  professional photographers.   did i miss seeing them this year?  were they there?  last year, it was pretty cool to be able to buy pictures of your team/yourself racing.  while we're on this topic, still race pictures displayed on the big screen would be pretty cool too.  

Advancement is based on points then time. The seeding is usually done well so the points work out. When the points are tied time is used, but the time used isn't the actual time but differential time, that is your time compared to the average time of your heat. Everyone in your heat has the same boat, wind, tide and starting point therefore it's fair. For example, if the average time in your Gemini heat was 2:25 and you're 2:15 that's -10 seconds, compared to another team in a BuK heat with average time of 2:20 and their time is 2:12 for a differential of -8 seconds. So you are faster even though you were 2:15 and they were 2:12. It's a bit more involved than that but that's the concept. Alcan does it very well using a lot of programming ahead of time so it's automated. Almost all the teams end up in a suitable division with close competition. Very rarely is there a final with a team winning by a huge margin. I give them credit for this, they put a lot of effort into it. It worked out pretty well again this year, lots of close races. Maybe start a separate thread if you want to discuss this more.

One more suggestion for you Bernman, have the medal ceremonies in the beer garden. Spread them out, so say an hour after the race give the medals on a podium or stage in the beer garden so the teams can be acknowledged. Rec E at 3:00, Rec D at 3:15, etc.

They have awards in the beer garden in Nanaimo and it's been done other places and it works well if there's room.

The 20th Alcan was great.

Ah. Thanks alot for explaining that, coach. That certainly cleared up a few things.

Maybe I've been around a tad to long, but I always have looked forward to having ALL the awards given out after the last race on Sunday..  In a non beer garden setting, as last time I checked juniors teams aren't allowed in beer gardens.

My 7th Alcan, and I certainly enjoyed it.  It's always been a world-class event.

I agree with most of the comments so far.  The consolation medal (or some sort of prize) is an idea that has merit.  Other thoughts:
-  Spacing was a little out of proportion as some areas were packed (passage to racers tent, beer gardens) while others weren't used as much (grass area by stage, VIP lounge).
-  Aluminum Chef was a cool idea although I didn't get to watch it (how did it do?).
-  Sorry but I'm not a fan of the commentator that comes back year after year.  It would be nice to have someone from the dragonboat community that knows a little more about the sport and teams involved.  Would be nice to know a few things about other teams' history, different techniques used, etc.  Also a very odd feeling when you're pumped to race and he horribly mispronounces your team name for everyone to hear (didn't happen to us this year).
-  Some teams had to endure team tents in super-dusty, rocky areas.  We did, which isn't a big deal to me, but seeing dust all over the Dogwood Nothin' tent was a little sad.
-  Most people I know aren't fans of dragon dollars and beer tickets.

Bottom line for me though, is that Alcan is a great event that I look forward to every year.  The premarshalling-marshalling-boarding-alignment-finishing-docking process is organized extremely well, considering 8 teams x 22 racers = 176 people plus staff, Aquabus patrons, etc. per heat.  Kim (starter) continues to do a great job at the line.  You know it's finally time when you hear her voice.  The organizers also continue improving on staying on schedule every year.

It was great that it was finally sunny and the event drew record attendance.

More than anything I hope dragonboat will always have a home in the vertically-exploding City of Vancouver.

Her name is Kim. And yes I too hope dragon boat racing will always have a home in the city of Vancouver!

My bad!  Shook her hand 3 or so years ago.
Has a daughter that paddled for RaceFace?

edit:  Thanks to Phat Phish for that insane last race, by the way.  Cheers!

Oh ya, those dragon dollars!! What was the point of having them?? Other than making money on unused dollars! What a was of time, standing in line to get them! And if we didn't have dragon dollars, that would have freed up spots for other vendors. It was interesting, seeing people handing out flyers on "going green", yet we had to go buy dragon dollars that were most likely not made with recycled paper..a bit ironic, no??

Only comment I can make that hasn't been made already.

There was a noticeable presence missing in the marshalling area (Not mentioning any names).  Makes marshalling so much more entertaining.

Agree, MP.  While the marshalls did an adequate job, Alcan just isn't Alcan without a certain someone, um, doggedly getting the teams ready for races...I assume he will be barking in Vernon, however?
:)

Perhaps Alcan came up with the dragon dollars for security reasons?
I'm guessing it would be a good idea to have all the money in one safe place as opposed to each vendor having their own cashbox.
I don't know what security is like around their stands but I imagine it would be a pain to have to keep a watchful eye on the thing, especially when it gets really really busy. Admission was free so anyone could have just wandered in and tried to rob somebody.. that would have been chaos.
I'm assuming thieves won't steal dragon dollars lol.

Yeah, I guess my point was that it would have been nice if that could have been prevented. Wasn't an issue during any of the other races so I assume so arrangments had been made. Not a huge issue but as someone who had a plane to catch the delay in starting the "Guts and Glory" seriously cut into my beer drinking time. Thank goodness for the beer bong. 8))

Perhaps Bernman can shed some light on the real reason to the delay of the G&G. I'm assuming like me, most missed the chase boat impromptu huli drill  :shock:. Must have been a crowd pleaser!

Yeah, I heard about it and was wondering how on earth someone could capsize that skiff, which was lent to the festival by FCRCC.

Can we possibly be talking about a very cute little "puppy"? heehee

From my understanding, and I don't know how true it is, the dragon dollars are meant for the festival to know how much each vendor has sold.  I believe they take a percentage of sales and therefore must exchange dragon dollars back to real currency.

Correct me if I'm completely wrong?

I do believe you are correct.

Given the vagaries of Vancouver weather, most vendors would not want to commit to a fixed rate for their rental for the weekend.  If it rains and only racers show up for the festival then they could run the risk of having a large loss for the weekend after paying staff and rent. If the festival charges a very low flat rent to encourage vendors, then they have to recoup that money from somewhere (i.e. from us in race registration fees)

This way the vendor's rent is variable based on sales, and the festival organisers can keep them honest by having them cash in their dragon dollars for real money, less the appropriate percentage for rent.

It's not the best arrangement for us paddlers (though it may keep our registration cost down), but without it there may not be any vendors at all.

It was the departure of one of the false creek 4 hour cruise boats heading out I would think. It meant having us take down the start line and the 125 meter line so that they don't get their engine caught up into it. As for the impromptu huli drill nothing to talk about there. But really nothing to worry about either.

Dude...that could have been an expensive swim, but thank goodness everything was ok!

Once again, Congrats on your teams performance!  8))

Last call for festival comments. Thanks to all who have given their comments to date. If others have been sitting on the fence thinking about what to say now is your chance to do so. All comments will be discussed with the race management crew for racing related comments. Comments about the festival side of things including racers village will be forwarded to the appropriate individuals. Thanks again all for your feedback!

The ranking system for qualifiers could be improved i.e. 'differentials' as a tie breaker. Its flawed, but I won't pollute the thread with that discussion.

We would like to know if all the teams got their 20-year anniversary pins and how they were handed out, because we didn't hear any announcements.  They should have been handed out with the team package pick-up.  How can we get ours now?
 
The festival souvenir tent could offer more variety in their merchandise, eg. db-themed water bottles, pins, visors, gloves, etc.
 
How about a water hose to rinse off after racing?   

There are 160+ teams at RTA DBF - so there are huge differentials between the top and bottom teams.  Why are they racing against each other?  so the top seeded Comp A & B teams can cakewalk to the finish, and the Rec E & F teams can allow themselves to finish the race behind everybody else by 2 minutes?  I have raced on both comp and novice teams.  It's no challenge always expected to come first, and it's no fun being blown away at the start and being left behind at the finish.

The Sunday morning semi-finals for Rec C/D/E were very weird.  If you finish 2nd, 4th or 6th - you go to a consolation round.  No more top 3 go to medal round, bottom three go to consolation.  Imagine that teams coming 3rd or 5th were REALLY HAPPY, because they didn't come 4th or 6th to go into a consolation.

If a top team has a bad race, or (heaven forbids) "sandbags" to get into a lower division... then innocent teams get bumped up above their abilities.  (okay - this year's races were based on times instead of placement, but you get the drift).

If the teams are being ranked anyways for seeding... divide the groupings into at Top, Middle and a Bottom - based on perceived abilities, then seed them for their race heats within these groupings. (similar to the old Comp, Recreation and Novice categories).

This way, teams will have closer races in the Saturday seeding races.  Instead presently, you see the Lower Rec teams struggling not to come last in 3 races, before being placed with teams matching their own abilities for Sunday afternoon.  Issues have always been about "festivals being fun" with close races, and identifying and discouraging sandbaggers.

But what about out-of-town teams that get placed in the wrong initial grouping? 
Run the Saturday afternoon races as repechage between the bottom finishes of TOP 1/3, and top finishers of MIDDLE 1/3 etc.  This way everything gets sorted out.  Chances of a novice team ending up in Comp, or a Comp in Novice is low.  Stick the unknown teams in the middle, and they will get washed upwards or downwards.

As the races stand now.  Middle lane always wins on Saturday and usually Sunday morning.  Very boring.
The more teams race against each other, the more rivalries will form... and the more race tactics will come to play if you are neck and neck with a team beside you.  Pretty hard for a brand new novice team to form a rivalry with comp teams on the Saturday.  Present system keeps all the lower rec teams isolated from each other until Sunday final.

Comp A, B, C, D and Rec A bound teams don't have to worry much because all the top 5 divisions are medal races.  This means all the other divisions are discriminated against because they are not "special enough."  These are timeless arguments about how many medals, ribbons or consolation plaques should be given.

I say this:  Try to keep the teams close for approximate abilities, and keep the races fair!