Dragon Boat West

Harrison :wtf: ???????????

who was the crazy race official whole kept making us race with a BROKEN drum?!
pity the little girl on  the drum. scared ****!?!

today's festival was a mess.  this is the most chaotic dragonboat event ever.  ive never seen so many frustrated paddlers, protests, and re-races in one festival.   2 hours behind schedule before lunchtime and it just got worse from there.  because of the changes to rules on the fly, no one knew what the hell was going on.  yes, they changed the rules DURING the festival!  you'd ask staff what race you were in and they'd answer, "most likely youre in race number "x" or then again, it can be the race after that...or maybe the one before "x".  we're not sure yet".   it really seemed like they were making rules up as it went along.    also, a couple of the heats clearly had inaccurate times.  heat number 2 for example where a couple of decent teams had a time of around 3:40.  i can go on but i'll leave it as is for now b/c im sure others will add to this.  my intuition says this will be a very long thread.    

I had the broken drum too in the semi-finals! It was broken from the previous race (they fix it and tied it tightly when we headed out), and on the 3rd stroke on the start, it just let loose and slid forward. I just carried the drum throughout the entire race because I wasn't sure if we'll be DQ if i dropped it and I sure didn't want to make everyone else re-race especially my team since it was our 5th race and I just wanted to get it over with. After we crossed the finish line, i just dropped the drum into the boat (I probably used as much power holding it as paddling during the race hehe!).  Sorry if you guys had it after...  :D

my record of re-races today... Three! 6 races (2 re-races) with SF; 5 races (1 re-race) with SOAR.

Jeez. How many re-races were there like in total so far? I know my team had done one re race already. :? It'd be downright awful if every team actually had a re-race. Talk about wearing down on the teams in so many ways.  :lol: Beside excessive physical labour and Chinese water torture (Seriously, waiting in the rain wondering what the heck is even going on is no different), did I miss anything else?

Seriously, when did they decide to move the top four rec teams to Comp Consolation and bump everyone else up accordingly? That was like the pinnacle of the mess.

Sadly, the only reason that prevented my team from a medal wasn't even related with the debacle of the festival.

Well, it was definitely a long and frustrating day.  It's late and Good Eats is on so I don't want to get too much into it but before we start beating on the event, I do want to say that I know how hard Ian and others have worked to try to run a great event.  So it didn't quite work out....

The site organization itself was great...the racer's village, free water and apples, the big screen, sound system, 3 video feeds, deluxe portable washrooms (while it lasted)...hey, that stuff is awesome.

Problem was the on water stuff...problems and delays in calculating the average times, figuring out which teams go to which semis and finals, pig boats, re-races not due to fault of the paddlers....

It's a shame really because this could easily be one of the premiere paddling events around.  Perhaps they should give the "pros" (i.e. Water's Edge) an opportunity to run the racing aspect of the event and learn from them before trying to do it on their own. 

It was almost comical to see how this festival degenerated down to a gong show. 

Super Puppy to the rescue! :lol:

Definitely will not return to Harrison anytime soon.

In my wildest dreams.. I could not have imagined today.......... and to think I was only worried about a few slow boats.......

They used the slow ass "fraser valley dragon boat club" boat. They shouldn't use that for racing ever again.

Jut got home from Harrison and before I crash from my 6 races today (must be some kind of record doing 2 Re-Races back to back...  :lol:) and thought I would share my thoughts on todays events.
I echo Swordfish's comments that there was a lot done by the FVDBC and they went out of there to provide ammenties for the paddlers to make this a great event (all above mentioned perks and visuals (and Yes Ian , the Washrooms were great until the ladies took over.. :P) and while this was to be applauded a little more should have been done to insure technical and equipment failures had adequate backups and fail overs in place to prevent some of the problems. True enough Waters Edge are the elite Race Management people (thanks Puppy for helping them out!) and could have prevented most if not all of the issues today but it is just a case of too much of a good thing trying to be crammed into too short a time frame (I think this would be an AWESOME 2 day festival!)
Yes there were some interesting results and Scheduling caused by a combination of over dependance on technology and hard (over worked?) people trying to do too much.
This event is very similar to Nanaimo , small town, great venue, Super people and a hokey kinda small regatta feel (which has now grown up) but the big difference is Nanaimo uses GO (Victoria's race management crew) for the technical part but keeps thier local volunteers to handle the paddlers other needs (Best damn beer garden in BC!)
I agree with Swordfish, Get WE, keep the same local crew with their great Ideas and  make it a 2 day event and u will have a ROCKING event!  (Another bonus is u get the fleet of BUKS with WE, I think another thread on the lack of "Equivilent" 6-16s is coming......)
Nite all and see u in Victoria.....
Don't give up this event folks! If we all stopped going to events because of one bad day or problem then it will be a very short season!

<_< Can we at least burn the slow boats? :O

It has been a long day for a lot of people and there have most definitely been some frustrations.  I think all the good intentions were there for the festival and thank you to those involved.  Great location, nice to see 50 teams out there and good to see some really exciting races.

However, the timing of races was questionable, the lack of clear communication and the very poor finalizing of the medal and consolation finals really left teams feeling disheartened.  Why would you suddenly move from competing in one division to another between semi finals and finals?  This took over an hour to sort out and the notice board was not correct, nothing was announced over the PA system to let us know what was going on, teams weren't even bothered to stay for the consolation rounds due to over 2 hour delays.  I hope that this will not happen for future festivals as this may prevent or deter teams wanting to come back again.

And on a final note, please leave 'Barney's son' at home, that boat had water leaking into it!

I've been to the Harrison Festival from the start, and I love the venue, but they absolutely need to sit down and examine what exactly went wrong and figure  out how to fix it. All the volunteers worked hard, and I applaud the effort they put in, but they need to have a long talk about thie year's festival.

Equipment failures leading to re-races? Sucks hard, but not that big a deal compared to the Race Grid problems. That was the show stopper right there, with the moving of teams into different divisions for the Finals?

Moving two teams from the Rec A Final to the Comp A Consolation final? That was just crazy. All because a couple of teams in the Comp A semis had bad races and high race times? That was nuts. Once the divisions are set, you can not move teams in and out of them because of race times.

Just a really dumb question. Why is there a DBC sanction event (Richmond) on the same days as Harrison?  Couldn't GO Rowing and Paddling Association discuss with Fraser Valley Dragon Boat Assocation to not have conflicting DB Festivals on the same day?

Does anyone know where the results are posted? I sure would like to see them. And yes the boats sucked big time! After all the complaining in the past about boats you would think they would try to make the boats a bit more comparable. But nooooo!

As for Puppy to the rescue and help out yes he did start off on the right foot with his intentions. Especially when it came to a complaint from one of the womens semi finalists who said their paddles came into contact with another team's paddles. My understanding is the last place team wanted to re-race saying they would have done better than coming in last. As it turned out even if they did come in last their time was faster than the first place team in the other semi so they were in the medal round anyway. By then there were just too many re-races and already too freaking far behind.

Unfortunately Puppy then decided to help the officials handling the race grids for the semis and finals near the end of a very long day. I am not sure if he is the contributor in having some of the comp teams bumped down into rec and having some of the rec teams up to comp. But when it came to placing the proper teams into their proper lanes, that is where he just blew it. I would like to think that Puppy and I are friends going back quite a few years. But Puppy I think you really f***** up on that! In every race that I have been involved in either as a paddler or an official over the years the way it works is the top team is seated in one of the middle lanes followed by the 2nd top team in the other middle lane and then the 3rd top team next to the top team to its right and the 4th top team would be next to the 2nd top team to its left. Basically the top team is in lane 3, the 2nd team in lane 2, the 3rd team in lane 4 and the 4th team in lane 1. That was the way things went and then suddenly it was changed. My crew was the 3rd top team of the day based on times and yet they were placed in lane 1. That lane has already been mentioned in this tread as having the FVDBC slow pig boat. How can a team who is expected to do well do anything with a boat like that no matter how well they paddled? The odds were already stacked up against my crew but they were getting better and better throughout the day and they should have been in lane 4. I know lane 4 came in 2nd in the end and perhaps my crew could have done that too. I am sure Diggerpig may say otherwise but when its time to put out I think you will find my crew did just that. For those who know of my crew they totally impressed me this weekend. They totally exceeded my expectations as a coach and I realized that they deserved to be where they were. In the end Puppy steered for the team in lane 2 which was where they should have been so no problems there. But that team in the past has been quite comparable to my crew and there would have definitely been a much closer race. And chances are my crew could have pulled it off.  Unfortunately though Puppy could have had a bit of a conflict in getting involved with placing teams where they were placed since he was involved in that heat. Could that have been his motivation? I would like to think not.

Anyway I am posting this here because I want those who know me how proud I was of my crew and how real it was for them to be there where they were.

A big congratulations goes out to Eye of the Dragon as I had you pegged as the favourites! Way to goooo!

Bernie, I appreciate your concerns and feedback but here's the bottom line. I was there to coach & steer at this festival. That's it...I wasn't there to do anything else. I only stepped in to help get them going and avoid the rain....

During the festival, I was trying to figure out why we were waiting so long. I asked Manfred if he needed help and he said yes. There were a few issues that need a quick resolution and we figured them out.

One of the last issue was at the end of the festival, when they had seated all 50 teams from the semi's based on times and not sedding brackets. I had 10 mintues, manually,to solve how to reseat all 50 teams from the semi's to the finals or else there were going to leave all the teams in the incorrect divisions and race. For anyone who was around the official tent, they can confirm the frantic feeling going on.

The course of action was to get all the teams into the correct divisions and let them race. I did not care which team was faster from the semi's (lane/boat placement was not even consider at this stage) because of the time constraints...so at the end of the day....please feel free to yell at me, curse me, critize me or even call me names...I can accept it. I'm part of a community that will help each other..that's what we do.. Ideally, if things were handled properly from the get go, we wouldn't be having this discussion...correct.  I will not lay blame on anyone nor will I feel bad about the situation. The issues that you point out presented itself early on...but it didn't come to light until the semi's.

This is Dragon Boating. We race and we have fun. Things will and do happen at races...provide feedback to improve, thank people for the hard effort, congratulate other teams, have a drink and move on...

Bernie, thank you for your feedback but if you want to continue this discussion, let's take it off line.


NOTE: on a personal note, all this unfair racing takes a back seat to a serious incident that happened prior to the start of the Festival. The CC riders was at this festival but one of their cars got into a serious accident. Three people were injured and one was sent to the hospital. Through some second hand information, that person had a cut in his head. He had a CAT scan that day. I'm not sure about his status but I pray and hope he's ok....CC Riders, if there is anything we can do...let us know....  Thank you to those teams that helped CC riders fill their roster.

The event started at 8 AM and ended at 8 PM.  If not for Puppy helping out, the event would have ended at midnight.  And if not for Puppy stepping in (volunteering his free time, I'm assuming), the FVDBC people would have succeeded in...
- making up rules as the day went on
- randomly placing teams in the Finals they saw fit because the consolation finalists all left due to delays

So thank you Puppy for your help and fixing the screw ups and not allowing the on-the-spot rule changes. 




And Bernman, your team Superslim Phat Phish was racing in the Comp Final with Eye of the Dragon, Sudden Impact and Just Dragon Along.  Judging by your comment, it sounds like you are trying to say your crew would have beaten the other 3 crews (or at least one of them) if not for the boat and lane your team was racing in.  This IS absolutely possible of course, because ANYTHING can happen in a race.  But keep in mind that "slow" boat or not, all 4 teams in that final raced hard, not just yours.   Your comment...

"And chances are my crew could have pulled it off"

... well... simply put, you're devaluating the efforts of the other 3 teams in that Final with a comment like that.  If you want to complain about the crappy boats, then let the race organizers know and avoid the "would have" and "could have"s.  It's just not sportsmanlike.  It's like the Canucks publicly saying "Yeah, we would have beaten Anaheim if Luongo's groin wasn't injured during the season."... when in reality, they lost because IMHO Luongo wasn't "focusing in his boat" (or net in this situation) and because the other team just proved to be better.  Publicly making excuses just doesn't make a team look very respectable.   :)

A better example is... At the Alcan 2007 festival, the Comp A team, Masters of DZ didn't complain on the forum about being screwed over by a team of wash-riders.  They went straight to the race officials to deal with the situation properly.

Having said that, congrats to ALL teams for qualifying in the Comp Final at Harrison.

This festival was going out of control and fast. If it wasn't for Puppy stepping in, teams still would have been racing at 10:00 pm! The race grids were all screwed up for the final heats and then there was another delay. We could have waited there for hours to have them sort it out. After all, Puppy was there to race that day and it was nice to help them try and get out of the mess. And honestly, do you think he really knew which boats were slower than the others? Personally, I thought boat 5 was slower than boat 1. Nice seeing both of you at the festival!

Lots of technical difficulties and inefficiencies throughout the festivals. Thank you for all the volunteers for their help. We were one of the ladies teams that would have had to re-race if it wasn't for Puppy. You're our hero! :D

I would love for my mixed team to come here next year but will only consider it if Water's Edge runs the festival. We have ferries that we have to catch and can't afford the 3 hour time delay.

Finally, thank you to the Mana Wahines for inviting myself and Tracey to come and paddle with you this weekend! We enjoyed your spirit and camaraderie. You are truly a group of special ladies! Thank you for the nice card and necklace. We hope to race with you again!

See you all in Victoria! 8))

Re: Puppy's assistance

Before we complain about others, ask yourself... what did I do to make a difference yesterday? If you just bitch about the problems and do nothing, then you accept the situation.

How many experienced paddlers/coaches/team managers stepped forward yesterday to help with the scheduling nightmare? NONE

No-one asked Puppy to do what he did. He saw a huge problem and showed real leadership to try to fix it. If he didn't help out, we could well have ended up doing moonlight dragon boat racing. The local DB community is fortunate to have someone with his passion and years of experience.   

He acted failry and ethically to position teams. In fact his team TDL (my team) got bumped up to Rec A consolation. Puppy put us back into Rec B final, where we deserved to be based on our times.

I want to recognize all of the VOLUNTEERS who had to deal with the mess. They did not have the luxury of being under tents or the option of leaving early. They gamely stuck to it right to the end. 

 

Thanks to Manfred, the FVDBC, and the countless volunteers for the effort and heart they put into this event.  Things didn't go off as planned but this was still a nice event - you got the weather to cooperate for most of the day and my crew was extremely grateful for that!

You guys also showed a lot of CLASS in dealing with issues as they came up.  We should all learn from the way this group of people conducted themselves.  Swordfish, Lethal, Siggy, and Shaggin certainly did as it shows in their summaries of this event - very classy posts.

One improvement I'd like to see is more room in the Racer's Village.  The 10'x10' area was a bit tight for 26 people, our gear, and the buffet table.  This was my first year at Harrison and it will not be my last.

Bernman, your post shows a real lack of sportsmanship and is embarrasing to Phat Phish. I am friends with several paddlers from your team and feel bad for them. Eye, Sudden Impact and JDA are all great teams period. Everyone was frustrated by the events unfolding  but to publicly criticize someone who just helped out, not even an organizer, is completely uncalled for.

Puppy, thanks for stepping in...your efforts are appreciated by all.

Manfred and Ian, our team who ahs been there from the start is very supportive of this festival. You know what went wrong so now just take a deep breath and look at how to make next year into a premiere event. Professionals are needed and think about 3 races in one day or 4 races over 2 days....You've put countless hours into festival and we will come back if there are changes. The venue, enthusiasm, and volunteers are all bonuses.

To CC Riders...I hope your paddler is doing better today. If there is anything we can do, to help, please ask.

For those who did not hear, one of the paddlers on CC Riders got into a serious car accident before arriving at the festival. He was admitted into hospital and had a CAT Scan..but I'm not sure how he is doing.....

To all the Harrison festival racers we all had a very long tiring day..... despite what everyone has to say ... you were awesome puppy in everything you did for everyone ,so with that ,imagine if you weren't there to help!!!!! Harrison dragonboating festival would have been a flop ...( in my eyes) Great job to everyone  :ashamed:

I know I'm repeating what everyone else is saying but if it wasn't for puppy stepping in, this festival would have gotten a lot uglier!!  Maybe we all can learn from this and help out when something doesn't go according to plan instead of complaining about the situation and not do anything.  I'm sure all teams raced hard and competed to the best of their ability but race conditions, boat conditions, etc, are all out of our control during race day.  You deal with the cards you are dealt and hope for the best...Above all, it's never about the medals!!!  It's all about showcasing our sport to the community and having a good time while doing so!!!

This was my first time attending the Harrison Festival.

I'm not going to get into details, but this was the WORST dragonboat festival I have been to in 9 years of paddling. BUT it could have been a lot worse if it weren't for Puppy stepping in to offer some help.  Thanks Puppy! If it weren't for you, I think this would have been a two day festival!  I left before we got to race our semi-finals as I needed to get back to do some work, then our crew ended up getting a gold medal in their division and I'm dissapointed I couldn't be there.

Congratulations to all the teams that participated!

I will not be attending the Harrison festival again.

Well I had fun and that's really what it's all about.  Great Job in the fun department Ian!  Ok... one little complaint... how about posting the results from the women's final?  what are we, chopped liver?  Great racing.... see you Dragon ladies again... and Women on Water..............please just try to get along!!

So glad I didn't go to this festival this year!!! Went last year and already said to myself "hell no harrison '07." You'd think they'd learn by now? Hmm I wonder which one was worse? last year or this year? At least this year you had puppy to un-f**k up the f**k-ups. I think a vast majority of the dragon boat community out there knows that puppy does what he does best out on festival day all the time. As for the bitchers and whiners, welcome to dragon boat, so just shut up and paddle. The only slow boat is the boat you were in cause you lost, that's why its the slow boat.

Sonofa ....

I just finished this long reply only to lose it ... sigh

Bernman - don't put down the efforts of the other team's so your team can read how proud you're of them.  SI BLUE knew after each race ...

SI Blue went to Harrison with 15 paddlers that have just came back to Dragon Boating (1) or new to the sport (14).  Yes a few Black came to fill the roster but it was BLUE team that came in second in the mixed division Comp A finals!  

Hats off to Eye of the Dragon ... you had a great race day and finished on top.  We tried to push the finish on you but not only did you keep up but beat us by a dragon's head in the end ... great work.

Yes the delays and race grid was a problem but it wasn't for a lack of effort to try and correct them.  Puppy - great job helping out.  I should have done the same as a former member of FVDBC.  :( It's always frantic when you're dealing with computer's going down, dozen of people coming up to you (within their rights) asking questions, when your trying to get things sorted out.  Stress to the max!

Harrison - GOOD

1. Live singing of the Canadian National Anthem - Class Act.  It was great to see all the paddlers standing with hats off.

2.  Great village set up and security ... a little small but the name placard with each team was nice touch

3. Always go out of their way to accommodate the paddlers - free water + apples

4. Great venue ... clean drinkable water to paddle in ... no sludge or other things floating in the water.

5.  Huge T.V Screen was back

6. Volunteer's going beyond duty to help out

7. The MS Team paddling at Harrison

Harrison - BAD ... I'm sure the angry horde will post enought about that

I feel for the members of the FVDBC and Manfred (Pres).  They've made huge sacrafices to run a fun event only to have the computers crash or some other little things go wrong.  No luck ... none at all.

Angel ... too bad you won't be back next year ... I'm sure SI Black and SI Blue will be.

Finally - Congrats to Mana Wahine for winning the Women's division.  As a mixed team you should be scared of this strong team ... they'll make you work for it.  

I also want to thank Mana Wahine who stuck around at the end of the day to watch our team race and cheers us on from the awards tent.  That was extremely classy after a long day.    

 

I came to Harrsion to cheer on our ladies, who had picked up with Mana Wahine. (Mana Wahine & Mana Wannabes you kick ass!)

My second agenda was to check it out for possible participation next year....

Good!

- Great location.
- Dogg'ed effort by the volunteers.

Opportunity for improvement.

- Race Management Inexperience.

I don't know that it helped that we (the teams & the MC) turned the difficulties into a joke. These people, despite their inexperience were busting their butts to do what they felt was right, and if they made any mistake, it was to underestimate what could go wrong in a festival.

Would I send our team there next year...If changes (as suggested earlier in this thread) were made...Lets encourage the race organizers to get the help they need. I am sure that a seasoned organization like Waters edge is sporting a few 'bumps of knowledge' from their early days as well.

Remember "Good Judgement come from experience..Experience comes from bad judgement"

I think 10minutes between races is too little time to schedule. with the bottleneck dock the race official should consider scheduling 15-20minutes between races. I think it didn't help when each race took 5min longer than it should. So maybe a 2 day event with more time between races or 1 day event with either less team or more lanes

Long day :S

I think Bernman has a valid argument. The boat that phat fish used in the final must have slowed a team down by at least 10 seconds. Zeus and vangroove probably didn't have to use that boat.. so they don't care.

Bernman,

... and what were you doing (to help the situation) while Puppy volunteered his time to help fix the situation??????  By the sound of your message and others, it sounded like you were doing "nothing" to help except being busy criticizing and blaming others for lending a hand to fix the problem.

The boat JDA use was extremely slimy could have slow them down 7sec
the outside lane SI had was more choppy could have slow them down 6sec
half the paddle from eye are blind I think that slow them down 10 sec

or how about swordfish racing 6 races that probably slow them down about 6 sec
not to mention E&C and redfusion paddling backward that probably slow them down alot too

All valid reasons, but next time talk to the race organizer about it. If the race is not up to your standard don't go to it (there is also richmond, vernon, kent all within a couple of weeks from each other to choose from). I've already consider not coming back to this venue next year (unless serious changes are made), or vote no when my team vote to go or not.

For someone to say something would have added 10sec to their race, well it's hard to say each races are different from each other, each race bring in new conditions and new factors. So please when you say a team should be 10sec faster than they should be consider the facts that every races are different.

Puppy: Latest news I heard, around 10pm, about the CC's paddlers was that 2 were treated for minor injuries, and the person with the head injury was still hospitalized in serious condition. I don't know what the results of the CT scan were.

Manfred and the rest of the FV teams involved in the festival: You guys have always been a class act, and I hope you that you can take from the constructive criticisms from myself and others and use it to fix the issues that arouse from this year's races.

I for one would be more the happy to attend next year's Harrison Festival.

My thoughts are that the organizers of the Harrison festival did not do enough risk mitigation.

1. Organizers did not have spare batteries for the radios, which caused at least one re-race.  The starter communicated the start of each race to the finish line tent via radio.  With the line of communication broken, there was no way for the finish line guys to accurately record times.  In fact, I would speculate that the reason why some good teams had very awful times (eg. 2:30ish) was because of human error and delay between the start call and the button pressing of the race recording software.  Add to the fact that advancement was based solely on TIMES and not PLACEMENT, it resulted in a non-sense semi-final race grid.  Times should never be used as the primary factor for advancement, given the effect of weather patterns, waves, wakes, and undertow currents.
2. There were also other issues with re-races.  I heard the first re-race was caused by someone forgetting to turn on the race computer??  Or crashing??  TEST TEST TEST TEST TEST ... BEFORE the event! 
3. There was no automation with devising the semi-final race grid.  You shouldn't have to manually crunch numbers yourself, since human error is a very real factor.  With a machine, you have 100% accurate results (assuming the algorithm is 100% correct) in a fraction of the time it would take to crunch numbers manually.

I know this sounds harsh, but if teams pay to participate at a festival, organizers should be responsible for ensuring that the event is run professionally.  With the Harrison festival, this was absolutely not the case... and especially when teams don't care about racing competitively anymore given the messed up race grids.  I wasn't around to see the comp finals, but I heard two teams raced backwards for their final race.

I have to disagree with enoki's comments:

"Before we complain about others, ask yourself... what did I do to make a difference yesterday? If you just bitch about the problems and do nothing, then you accept the situation.

How many experienced paddlers/coaches/team managers stepped forward yesterday to help with the scheduling nightmare? NONE"

As participants, we are entitled to "bitch".  We do not have festival/race organizing experience (like what you said, we're paddlers/coaches/team managers... not race organizers), so it's not in our place to give a helping hand.. in fact, if we all decided to go help out, we'd probably cause more issues.   The bitching goes a way into providing the organizers feedback for doing it right the next time.  That is, if they choose to listen to us.

Before the women's finals started, it was myself and our coach that pointed out to the officials that they had put Mana Wahine, Dragon Ladies, WOW and a team I can't remember the name of, into the Rec. B finals. The computer had figured out that the 4 fastest women's teams were the 4 slowest, so they seeded teams backwards. So, yes, there were many coaches/captains helping to refigure out the women's finals. I don't know about the mixed.

All in all, even though there were mistakes and unforseen problems and technical errors, hats off to all the volunteers who worked their buts off to try and get us on the water to race. And thank you for scaring away the rain! Well, until about 5pm anyhow!  :lol:

I just had it confirmed that the CC Rider paddler is ok and has been released from hospital today... in the end it was just a concussion.

I'm sure Columbia College (that's what CC stand's for) appreciate the concern shown by Puppy and all others in the DB community.

Good to hear that he's OK.

I would like to thank all the race organizers and volunteers that were involved with the
Harrison Dragon Boat Festival.
You guys have the most picturesque race venue in the province IMHO.
I am sure that all of these posts have given the race organizers plenty of food for thought for next year, but I'm going to throw in my two cents worth anyway.
1) more reliable communication between the start and finish line.
2) perhaps an additional dock set-up to help in speedier loading and unloading
    of paddlers, something like Vernon or Kelowna.
3) perhaps part of the race commentators job could be to announce which teams are
    required at the marshalling area and which teams are currently being loaded onto
    boats etc. the only time i heard this kind of info was when puppy started making those
    announcements for the first 2 races after the lunch break. the PA was aimed right into
    the racers village so that kind of info would have been useful.
4) more volunteers so that shifts can be arranged to keep races running over lunch time.
My thanks to E&C for a most memorable comp.A consolation final!!  Cheers       

Hopefully someone will remember to recharge the batteries for the radios next time!

At the end, BernMan and I agree, that the boats are not even and the lanes ar not even. Yes, in the semi final and final round, I did not place teams in the proper lanes due to time constraints.

I think what BernMan wanted was fair and equitable racing. I think that is what all of us want, anytime we race at any festival.

BernMan, thanks again for your feedback...we will always be friends.....

On to the next festival..... :)

Wow, so much feedback.  I wasn't going to post on this regatta because our team wasn't racing but as many of us were out to support our Blue team I feel that I was a part of it (and did actually spare for several races on a team already registered).

I agree the day was a long one with many delays due to technical difficulties, re-races etc.  But...paddlers need to remember that this is only the 3rd year that the FVDC has run this event.  From what I've heard, the Harrison Village was not willing to accommodate a two day event - so one option (in my opinion) would be to cut off the registration at 25-30 teams or another would be, to hope that with all the volunteers and no glitches, the event could be run with more teams in a limited time frame.  Unfortunately, the best laid plans....!
Harrison is a wonderful place for an event such as this.  Even with rain threatening I saw paddlers playing volleyball, swimming in the Lagoon, eating ice-cream cones, wandering about the village looking for something special to take home...in other words, it was a holiday setting as well as being a dragon boat regatta.  The event was played over the radio for several weeks prior to the festival date, as well as being posted in the local newspapers - if one of our goals is to bring the sport of dragon boating to the forefront in our communities, it was a job well done.  One of my major concerns is that, we are a community in it's own right just as hockey, rugby, football etc is to many other athletes.  I know that many think that constructive criticism is okay, but some of these postings go beyond that.  I would like to turn the phrase 'constructive criticism' into 'constructive thought and suggestions'.  We may all learn from our mistakes, but positive input goes a heck of a long way further than 'verbal slamming' which is how some of these postings come across.  So many of the volunteers would rather have been paddling, but they gave it up to try and make this an enjoyable day for all the 'guests'.  As a guest, I felt that I was welcomed and that everywhere I turned I was seeing other 'paddling friend's' that I could only have met and appreciated through this sport.  This was not a major National or International Event - why not just take it as it was offered and admit, we do enjoy meeting up with each other, we do enjoy the competition (friendly of course), and so what...if the weather had been good, how many complaints would there have been - more chance to enjoy what is a regatta held in one of the more beautiful locations in the Valley.  Many teams use this venue as they do the other smaller ones, in order to prepare for other regattas.  We are a dragon boat community and in a sense a 'family', we need to behave as such and help each other out to the extent of our abilities.  After paddling for 7 years, I have yet to attend a regatta that does not have it's glitches or downfalls, it doesn't mean I'll boycott them, it just means that I'll be patient, enjoy what is offered and chalk it up to experience.  Regattas are similar to the water conditions, sometimes they're a bit choppy, sometimes too smooth to be believable, and sometimes it's the hidden variables that make them challenging.  I for one will attend Harrison next year (if I'm still paddling), either with my team or as a spare for another team.
Looking forward to seeing everyone at either Vernon, Victoria or Kelowna.
Thank you Fraser Valley Dragon Boat Club for putting on the event, I loved seeing you all and I do believe that under the circumstances you did an awesome job!!

We all knew from the get go that this would be like this when no one cared that they would be using Barney and his sister.When your running late from the first race on your in trouble I was surprised they never tried to get things back on schedule when thing were behind .I didn't know a one day festival meant 24 hours. Harrison has to be one of the best scenic venues I've seen around but when the racing is bad your going to get this. Who knows where the finish line is??? You come first in a heat you place third, you come last and you win the heat,your not in the heat and you win a medal what next. No ones complaing about the volunteers that spend tome own their own to help out I would be the first one to say Thank You!!! but you do have to listen to racers because their the one's on the front lines racing.Would you send troops to the front line with no bullets and say sorry no bullets they don't fly straight and think they have a chance to protect you.Their always going to be problems yes but when you have unfair equipment you can't expect someone not to complain.As long as you use the 6/16's the event will be what it is just fun.Teams will leave teams will come the 6/16's will go eventually and then the Gemini's next then what? All we ask as racers is that it's all fair for everyone. it's funny that the home team never complains about the boats when they never race in them, funny how that works.Over all I knew the Gong ShowII was going to happen but let it all go to have a fun weekend and I did, Never saw so many laughable results in my life but that's what everyone has to do.Laugh.

Yep there were problems, but many thanks to the volunteers who worked really hard and were still in good spirits at the end of the day.
The SaltSpring team had a good time--we would have had an even better time of course if we didn't have to sit around in the rain waiting and waiting and waiting, but that's dragon-boat racing. 

We thought the race marshalls were just a bit too tolerant of boats that veered off course and crowded into other lanes--maybe this was just our experience. Also, four races in the day!--seems too ambitious. And more effort is needed lining up back up just in case the race results and scheduling systems don't function

But we enjoyed the festival overall--and thanks for the medal. (we have no idea if we got it in Rec C or Rec B because of the end of day confusion, but  we like it. ) If the sun had been shining, and the temperature above 19 degrees the general crankiness level would probably have been down a few notches.

Hey Popcorn. What did I do? Well actually since my crew was involved in the 2nd race of the day I noticed that the dock volunteers were bringing back the boats in numerical order. This of course takes quite a bit more time to get the boats to the docks, unload them, then load them back for the next heat. So I actually offered a suggestion which I believe they appreciated. I told them it did not matter where the boats were tied to the dock so long as the crew getting into them were the correct ones. If crew so and so were to be in lane 3 make sure they get into boat 3. That kind of stuff. But obviously there was more to the delays than just loading and unloading so I did try to help to a small degree.

As for my comments directed at Kerry, it did come out as a dig at him but to be honest it was supposed to be a sarcastic one. Kerry (aka Puppy) and I go back quite a few years. He and I have been avid ambassadors of the sport of dragon boat racing especially during the 1990's! He continued full speed ever since but I did not as life changed for me due to career and family obligations. But I am still involved a fair deal, just not as much as back in the 1990's. Anyway also the tone obviously did not come out as it was meant to be. Kerry and I have worked together for many years in DB racing. We are a part of a good race management crew. We are also very competitive as coaches and I continue to paddle as well. We both enjoy the competitive nature of the sport as well as the camaraderie that comes with it. I read each and every one of the previous posts and I have no issue with anything anyone said. I too am a big fan of Kerry because he never thinks twice about lending a hand. He even does it at other cities where the only people who know of him is us who also attend to those festivals too. But then those other city folks know of him as well because he shines right through and they will remember him.

Kerry and I have spoken since my original post and he did agree an error was made. In the end I just let out some steam and those that know me I usually only do that when I truly feel undone by something. The bottom line is it was a build up of the day's events culminating into the end that resulted and I just lost it! So I too made an error obviously because most of you took my comment to be a big slap in the face to Kerry but honestly it had sarcastic undertones to it. Its just that most of you probably never spoke with me before to realize it. Its just the words that I used that should have given that away but obviously it did not come across that way. That is the only negative I have when trying to say something in words rather than speaking them in person to someone. The tone sometimes gets missed. 

Puppy you have a lot of people who are obvious fans of yours and for good reason! Hell I am one too.

OK after 24 hours (barely and I'm posting this at 10 PM) to digest the situation here goes.

Hats off to all the people that put themselves out there to make this happen... it is a major undertaking and I'm sure took a significant amount of effort and time to get everything together. Manfred, Ian, and the rest of FVDBC well done.  

The constructive criticisms, keep the venue (Obviously), The racers village was well laid out and the sightlines where great for watching the racing, the luxury port-o-potties where a bonus and the Giant TV was pretty good too... just would have liked and easy chair and a remote while the race grid was being sorted out ;)

The volunteers where excellent the water and apples where a nice bonus and even the little BBQ fund raiser was well run.

Now as for the racing... I think I am likely going to reiterate much of what was already said in several different ways but here we go anyway.

The Boats:  Now this is a known issue and a recurring issue after pretty much every race.  I understand that every effort was made to clean the boats and make them as even as possible for race day and that effort is appreciated but lets not kid ourselves here.  Though the hull design and the general construction of the boats is the same we are dealing with boats of varying ages and varying states of repair and if I recall correctly 2 bionic boats that where rebuild after suffering significant damage in an accident two years ago.  

To suggest the lane made a difference in this case I think you may have a questionable argument, but to suggest the boat may have played a factor you're darn right it did.  Watching and being in the final heats you watched two races. Boats one and two and boats three and four with one and two struggling down the course fighting it out for bronze  (note the FVDBC boats happened to be  1 & 2  Barney remained firmly tied to the spare finger docks at DZ at least on Thursday night he was)... Now what to do about it... other than sinking the problem boats I would suggest taking what appear to be the fastest boats of the day and hope they are the most evenly matched boats of the day and reposition them for the A finals, we saw this happen last year for Kelowna where on day 2 the boats where shuffled so that the disparity between the boats was minimized or at least where it was obvious the boats where moved to outside lanes.  

Re-races:  A tool to be used sparingly in this sport, and if required call the race as quickly as possible and call it on the course.  The hint here: STOP THE RACE and pull the boats back to the starting line as soon as possible.  I know that many of the readers of this forum are long time dragon boaters and in training do back to back race pieces and have the conditioning to recover in 8 minutes it takes you to get back down the course and lined up again but for many in the sport they really do leave it all on the course.  Now to suggest in an event where advancements are calculated completely based on time is this fair to the teams involved... I doubt it.  This likely effected times and positioning for the seeding and final race outcomes.  How to fix it... if you must use the rerace do it sparingly and do it as soon as possible.  Have the water marshal call it early ideally as soon as they know that the race is being scrubbed, otherwise if it is an infraction on the part of the a team assess a time penalty and make that known at the managers meeting... or better yet where it was a blatant foul DQ the transgressors.  

Communication:  Now this is the big one and the one that honestly takes the least amount of effort to improve upon.  I realize that the race officials where likely in panic mode after the various technical hiccups but really as dragon boaters we for the most part are reasonable people so admit you are having some challenges and when you need it ASK for the help.  I found the worst part of the day not knowing what was going on, I heard nothing announced and I saw nothing posted on the results board.  I know it is hard but you did have some very experienced race officials floating around the site that could have helped (fortunately one did... Thanks Puppy but more on this later).  In future please, and this goes for all organizers of these events, be honest and upfront with your guest or patrons or how every you view the paddlers, though you may have a few sighs of frustration at the time if you inform them that there is a problem and what to expect you would avoid many of these problem because people would be capable of making informed decisions.  Finally with the communication when you do send something out or say something during the manager's meeting please stick to it, the comments about changing rules and then changing them back and forth are very valid.  Stick to your guns in these situations because though you may appease one squeaky wheel doesn't mean the problem is solved because you better believe you will hear about on here from the 'quieter' teams out there.

In closing I would also like to personally take a second on here to personally thank Puppy for putting him self out there and will try to remember to do the same I hope that in a similar situation next time more people will step to the plate and he race officials will accept if not solicit help where required.

As for Bernman's unfortunate comments... though I don't always agree with some of the on water stunts you pull I would never doubt for a minute that you intentions where pure in their intention and the fact that Bernman even thought that was your attempt concerns me greatly as it suggests that he would have used the situation to his advantage which is unfortunate.  

Anyway... dead horse now beaten repeatedly.

Oh... almost forgot... anyone who thinks they didn't make every effort to get back on time... please remember that there was a Fraser Valley challenge that was supposed to be run for the volunteers and I think the racing crew.  However, this race was cancelled basically meaning that anyone who was working the festival did so without participating in a sport that they love as much as you do.

If you have made it this far congrats... you have finally found the end

There's not much to be say that hasn't already been said, so I'll just confirm one rumour.

E&C and Red Fusion (my team), did in fact backpaddle half of the race!

At the marshalling area for Comp A Consolation, we already knew that because of all the seemingly random changes, and teams leaving, our team was guaranteed 1st place (E&C didn't have enough women i think...).  So we just decided to have some fun, race hard to the 250m mark, turn around in our seats, and backpaddle the rest of the way!

A BIG thanks to Kerry for sorting out the race grid problems. 

When the semi-final race grid was posted, our team, Scaly Justice, informed the people at the registration tent that there was a problem, and one girl ran off to the race marshall's tent to resolve the problem.  It was only when Kerry got involved (a half hour later) when we were actually marshalling for our semi-final that the problem was resolved.  One team had to be recalled from the dock before they boarded boats.

Our Rec C semi-final - the first Rec semi-final of the day was slated to have Scaly Justice, Ford Fusion, Swordfish!! and Dragon Hearts!!  Had the problem not been sorted out before the start of the Rec semi-finals - there would have been far more re-races necessary, as the mistake meant that there was a shift of practically all teams on the grid (and we had already re-raced our first race (and we hear Swordfish had re-raced both of their seeding races)).

When the Finals sheet came around, more mix-ups, as we had magically advanced from the Rec C semi-final to the Rec B consolation, and none of the top 4 boats in the Rec C semi-finals were slated to race in Race 38 (the Rec C Final).  Kerry got that straightened up as well - as it was obvious which boats should have been in our final.  Luckily, the Rec C consolation had the correct boats listed, but all of the subsequent finals were messed up. 

Thanks again, Kerry!

Just to make a correction, E & C did have enough women to race the final with Red Fusion.  But there were 4 Splash Test paddlers (rest of their team left) around and they wanted to race.  (Splash Test was also in this heat).  So E&C decided to let them race in our boat after we made the deal with Red Fusion.  Both teams did race hard frontwards and backwards.  It still a race and both teams wanted to win.  In the end, E&C got DQ for having Splash Test paddlers in the boat.  That's ok, because it was a great stress reliever, and great way to end a long day.

Thanks to all the Manfred and all the volunteers to make festival happen.  You guys have an awesome venue and we will always support you guys.  Thanks again.

what does this mean?  ive been coached by bernman in the past and in my experience, he's never pulled any on water stunts....ever. 

Many thanks to Puppy for helping to figure out the women's comp semi. Much appreciated by all four teams.

To Mana Wahine, Twist and Shout and WOW, you gals are all a class act.  See you in Kelowna!!!   :D

the real reason for the delays is because of Swordfish.  We wanted to get our money's worth so we made sure we got 4 races first before lunch! :lol:

Read carefully Puppy's stunts not Bernman's... it is usually just Bernman's mouth that gets him in trouble  :P

I came to Harrison on the weekend to cheer on our Sudden Impact Blue team who did awesome and was great to see some new paddlers with such excitement.
As the team I am on (Sudden Impact Black) were not paddling, I put my name out to paddle/call on other teams.  It was such a delight paddling for Sole Sisters (who are fantastic singers), but my highlight was having the honour to call on the Off Balance Team (M.S. team).  We should all take a moment to think what hardships these wonderful team members go through just to get on the boat itself.  After getting wheel chairs down to the dock, loading and sitting out in the water for 1 hour before the race was a challenge on its own.  Did I ever see a "long face"?? NO - I have never felt so much in awe of a team, who were so excited and did their best times ever.  I had tears streaming down my face as we came to the finish line and to look down that boat and see such perfect timing, happy faces, some helping others - it was mind boggling.  I would call for you anyday, anywhere - you are way ahead of us with all the challenges you have to face.  Other paddlers can zip to the toilet when waiting to go on the boats, you guys have just to suck it up as it was impossible to get wheel chairs back for you to go - I was so so proud of each and every one of you and will definitely be one of your fans when I see you paddling again.  To the coaches of this team ( I am sorry I did not get your names) but my hat goes off to you for your dedication and true spirit and for the great job you do.
Many thanks to the FVDBC for the wonderful event in Harrison.  A lot of hard work put in with you guys to pull this off - I am sure Manfred, Ian and Cathy spent many long hours out there this past week with the rest of the members.  So what - some things went wrong - isn't life like that?   Negative people will always be negative people - Harrison will go on and be better and stronger every year - I look forward to paddling many years at the Harrison festival - my thoughts - maybe all of you who complain so much should take a turn going out on the Off Balance team, then your thoughts may become way more positive.  Great job FVDBC - Sheena (Sudden Impact, Black)

Uhhhh yeah its true sometimes my big freaking mouth does get me into trouble. I mean I don't know how to sugar coat things so I say it as I see it. And sometimes it just doesn't even come out right like it was meant to be! And sometimes, really sometimes, I do come up with such wonderful things out of my mouth that I even am impressed with it!  :lol:

Puppy, what would we do without you!?!?

Thanks for always being there to run the Regatta's/Festivals so smoothly and for fixing any  hiccups!

You're the Best!!!  :clap: 

I had expected that the lack of a level playing field was going to cause some tension and issues and it was I was asking last week about the race grid and suggesting that the lane assignment be random.

Given that their was known disparity between the boats, and advancement to medal rounds was based on cumulative time, I was mortified to see that lanes were already assigned for the two qualifying heats.... I expected animosity toward the organisers over lane assignment, but was not surprised that after the day degenerated into a mess and was salvaged by Puppy that someone would cry foul over the lane assignment.  I'm just glad this mess of a festival and the situations it caused did not cause a permanent rift between Bernie & Puppy (but I guess if Puppy has put up with Bernie's mouth for this long, then one more indiscretion could be excused)

One would think the FVDBC will learn from this past weekend and the previous two years and get it right next year......though it does seem to have gotten worse every year not better.....  

The easy solution, hire Waters Edge and their fleet of BuK's....and then we can have Puppy yell us at marshalling and Bern Man yell at us from the chase boat... you would obviously have to pass on the higher cost to us racers, but the combination of a great race site and well run races would make this one sweet little regatta and well worth the cost.

Honestly, there is no issues here between Bernie and I....he spoke his mind and rightfully so....All is good...there is no right and no wrong here...let's just race in Vernon, Kelowna, Victoria, San Francisco, Calgary and so on....

SO...may we all drop this subject about Bernie and I...in our mind it's a dead issue.

Going forward, I know that Ian will be presenting all the good things, and items that need to be fix, to the committee.

So, if there is anything else anyone else has to provide, please do so....BUT no more about the race grid....I think they have a HARRY POTTER size book on this issue.........

For Harrison, I think a lot of teams will return becuase of the site, hospitality and great friends out there....

PS If any vancouverrities see a corn patch from the highway...DO NOT think the corn is FREE.....those farmers have guns out there.

Here here...

Heck at this point I would even take FMG, seriously Water's Edge or GO would add a dimension to this race that could make this one of the premier events of the season.  We know they have the venue side nailed let's just get the racing to the same level.

I agree. Out of the all the Six-Sixteens they had there for sure one FVDBC boat and possibly two were significantly slower. They shouldn't be used in races. Those were the same boats that caused problems in Kelowna last year, how many more times do we have to go through this?

I feel sorry for the teams that got the slow one, I've been in one and know how it feels.

You're referring to the FVDBC that was in lane 2 for the even heats in the first 2 rounds. It was later switched for unknown reasons before a re-race in race 18. Then brought back for the even races in lane #1 for the semis. Then for some reason was switched to the consolation C race. Then again switched to the rec a and comp final races.

Well, that boat did not win a single race this weekend. In fact (correct me if I am wrong) it came in last in every semi-final and final race.

Is it just a coincidence that every team just happens to have their worst race in that boat?

I don't think that a "slow" or broken or barney boat should be in ANY race, nor should it be in ANY lane.  Just because the outer lanes are seeded to come in last doesn't mean they should get a slow boat.  It's just not fair racing.  Just my opinion.   :)

I just want to add a final note here on how disappointing the issue with the Barny boats is.

The final race had all the makings of a great finish.

EOTD posts the fasted times through all the heats

JDA was nipping at their heels (JDA bested EOTD in the Alcan Rec A Semis and Final).

Phat Phish came in with a "hey don't count us out yet" in their second heat and the semis.

Sudden Impact showed they still had lots of gas in the tank.

So what could have been a nail biter, winner take all turned into a disappointing "Yeah, but...!

What impressed me the most though (and why I an compelled to continue this tired tread) was when a paddler from EOTD commiserated with a JDA paddler over the fact that they had a Barney boat, the JDA paddler replied; "Hey, it wasn't the boat".

What a class act these young paddlers are!  All I can say is this, (and RGL take note!)

"Objects are closer then they appear in mirror"

Everyone has said everything i want to say so the only thing i will add is that Barney was a b*tch. When we raced in that boat, i believe our race time was almost ten seconds slower then our first two races. I could be wrong, but that's what i'm remembering. As we were lining up to race, my steersman noticed that water was coming in the boat! It was a huge disappointment for my team who have been working really hard.

And now i'm of two minds about this festival. Should we or shouldn't we come back next year? It was my first year for Harrison and thought that for the most part, it was great, just some things need to be worked out. Hopefully that can be done.

Great racing all around though to all teams! See you in Victoria!

New names for the Fraser Valley boats... Humpty and Dumpty ... They couldn't put him back together again either

To the many people who came forward at Harrison and spoke to us.............

Thanks for all your concern regarding our injured paddler (car accident en route to Harrison). As a team we were very touched by your thoughtfulness. The student has returned to his classes but is still sore.We are thankful that he walked away with no more than a fractured skull (bad enough!). Our other 2 missing paddlers were with him at the hospital but were not in the car at the time of the accident.  Special thanks to Anna of TD Lightning who was able to join our 17 paddlers in the first race.

Alex, your great coaching  and positive thinking throughout the season really inspired the students!

Cheers.
Carolyn J.
Columbia College (CC RIders)

I wonder of any of the organizers look at this thread.  We've all given enough feedback, it would be nice if we could have some kind of open dialogue with them.

maybe i'm missing something, but i don't get the continued debate over the barney boat and this event.  I was working at Dragonzone on the saturday of harrison, and Barney remained safely docked at the storage dock, where is has been for weeks, and is still (unless it was moved this weekend since its been sold).  So let me assure you, while you may have had some slow 6/16's, you didn't have barney.

It's just the ol' "mind over matter" thing..haha :lol: