Dragon Boat West

Hi All,

Just got into the scene of coaching, and I was wondering if there are any seasoned coaches out there that could give me some pointers on how to track the speed of a DB, war canoe, and small boats.  I've heard of estimation on bow wakes, washes.  Relying on the good old GPS, and other wristop computers.  Even things like using aqua-buses as a meter stick.

Would like to invest in a basic GPS eventually, but all the functions and varieties on the web's got spinning me in circles.  Can someone recommend a beginner level of sorts?

Luke

I bought the cheapest GPS possible from Steveston Marine and was annoyed by the following:

- difficulty acquiring satellite signals
- lack of maps (I thought I didn't care but in retrospect I was wrong)
- obscure menus and inaccurate user manual
- no timing capability and clock that shows only hours and minutes, no seconds

So, don't by the cheapest GPS possible.  :)

MANY paddlers use the Garmin Forerunner 201 (or various model #s of the same design, 101, 201, 301 etc).  big, clear screen and numbers, can create a custum screen, etc etc etc (google it, you'll get tons of info on it).  i picked mine up from MEC for $200, might be able to get one from craigslist or ebay for cheaper. 

 Heres a link to the canadian E-bay and there are used garmin 201's for bids around $70 + shipping and new ones for around $140 + shipping .I got my 301 w/ heartrate from here for $192 + shipping

 http://search.ebay.ca/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=garmin+201

 The garmin 201 can't be beat ,if you see me on my oc1 you will notice I have a garmin 301  mounted between the footwell so I can look down and see where I am at when training or racing . I have it set up so it changes screens as I paddle to let me know max speed,avg speed ,current speed,heartrate ,elapsed time ,peak heartrate .Its a cool device to train with plus you can map it all on your computor by downloading the info


 Heres the link for the Garmin 301 which is the same as the 201 but has a heart rate monitor as well

 http://search.ebay.ca/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=garmin+301&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=

Out of all the GPS's out there, stick to Garmin's line designed for runners. 
They've released a line for cyclists now, but that one you can't mount on your wrist or thigh.

The Forerunner 101/201/301 is more than adequate.
Two major issues
the strap will eventually harden up and the velcro will lose it's stickiness.  That's a problem.  Right now I cannot safely wear my 201 without it falling off the wrist.  Luckily I only use it strapped to the thigh now, so that's a non-issue.

It's not waterproof as it's specifications indicate.  (I jury rigged a ziplock bag as a solution)
Mine has been waterlogged 3 times now.  The first time was when I was out in a heavy rainfall.  The last time was when I lent it out, and buddy went for an unexpected swim.  There was a lake underneath the screen. 
Although it's still alive and kicking, time will tell if the internals start to corrode or gunk up.
This model is great for paddling.  Big screen, easy to reach buttons, lays flat on the thigh.


You may want to have a look at Garmin's updated Forerunner 205/305.
Much easier to wear on the wrist.
The wristband is durable like any other.
4 customizable screens (instead of 3, which means I don't have to toggle for info anymore)
numerous little improvements like being able to auto-clock at say 250m instead of the previous minimum of 400m.
No word yet on it's waterproofness, but it's supposed to share the same specs as the 101-301 line.

The 205/305 may offer enough for you to choose it over the older 101-301 line.  But if you intend to paddle/train with this one, and don't want it on your wrist, think it through about how you'd want to mount it.  I haven't found a satisfactory method yet, but that's b/c I don't need to.

End of the day, I like using my 201 for paddling and 205 for coaching.  (why do I have both?  long story.  don't ask)

 My 201 is completely waterproof and have huli'd a few times and its straped to my oc and upside down in the water and I have never had a problem .I even wash it off under the tap and still no problem .You should have sent it back to garmin for warranty .

 The 205 ( new design)is too bulky and wearing it on your wrist is useless if your paddling .Its ok if your coaching but forget trying to read it if your racing and its on your wrist .Thats why we mount it to our boat or dragonboat find a place to put it .I have never had a problem yet .As for velcro .....just go to any hardware store and you should be able to buy some and even upgrade it to marine quality .You need to remember to rinse your garmin off with fresh water if you had it in salt water as soon as you can .Alot of people are lazy and don't hence the problems

I hope your 201 stays waterproof, mine used to be.  I always take care to wash off the GPS, and certainly after each rain night out.  it's better to dip the unit into a sink of water (just under the surface for a quick wipe), than to hold it under a running tap however.

It's a matter of understanding how a unit holds up with long term use, wear and tear.  In my case, I've been using it almost everyday of the year, rain or shine ever since it was first released.  (You'll know you use that thing in the rain a lot when the lettering washes off.)  These problems showed up well after the warranty expired.  About 60bux min. for repairs.

As for the 205 it's certainly ugly, but it's nowhere near heavy or ungainly to wear.  More importantly It stays out of the way.  I can't tell what's lighter, the 201 or the 205 actually.
I think the reason they went to this design was to address the 101-301's length.  If you've tried running with it, it tends to slide down slightly and interfere with your wrist.  Annoying.

For paddling, anything strapped to your wrist sucks.  I don't think the 205 would be good strapped down to a hull/beam/leg though.
 
Which reminds me, the rechargeable battery unit works almost flawlessly and has held up pretty good.  You're supposed to get 14 hours use out of a charge.  Mine will say 14 but I usually get a little over 13 now.  Not bad.

 The 205 has a relocated antenna I believe as too many people complained that when it was used vertical instead of flat it would lose it signal .I lose the signal once an a while ,usually under a bridge or something , and sometimes it is out to lunch w/ readings but its rare just depends on the day but overall its been good and I've had it about 1.5 yrs now

you can pick up a refurbished garmin 201 at the Running Room for $100.  Very good deal considering these suckers still cost $190+tax brand new.

i like my 201... it's all you really need for personal training and coaching.  the only thing i wish it had was an automatic distance stop.  for example if you want to set a 250m and have it stop automatically it's impossible with the 201... or am i wrong?!

yeah your right .I don't think any small GPS has that feature

ah wait, I remember now, the 205 I think is supposed to have a stronger antennae too.  At least according to some sales reps I spoke to, but I never bothered to confirm it.

the 101-301 does have a pretty weak antennae.  The cold start takes forever, and I easily lose my signal if I cross my arm over it.
The newer 205 series does have a much faster cold start and warm start time though.


iceman, you missed this part of my reply
"4 customizable screens (instead of 3, which means I don't have to toggle for info anymore)
numerous little improvements like being able to auto-clock at say 250m instead of the previous minimum of 400m."
Your gps has a minimum of 400m.  the new one removes that limit, so you can now set it to 250 or less if you want to.

Actually, I've bought a 205, birthday treat to myself(NOT A KID anymore), the auto-clock below 400 is just too good to pass up.  Teeny jr. paddlers need their good start.

Rossi, mind showing me how to work it sometimes?

Guido, you said you'd show me the old school, skool?, ol' skool?

The larger units would be easier to see when mounted to the boats.  How are people mounting their Garmins to the OC's and marathon canoes? 

for 201, I've seen it with Velcro on the iakko, as for 205 and the bigger designs mostly on wrists or forearms.

some people do a duct-tape ring(as seen on many kayaks at FCRCC). and tie the band around it, personally I doubt its secure

Cool, sure I can show you some stuff.  there's actually quite a lot of little things they added.  You'll probably want to subscribe to the K.I.S.S. principle when using it for coaching.

you've obviously not tried taking some of that duct tape off...  haha its more than just a simple "duct tape ring".  as long as your velcro isnt' dead, when its wrapped up on the deck there, its safe from coming off. 

yeah...the amount of hulying I do, really, I would probably only feel safe when its surgically attached to my arm.  Or wielded onto the boat.

i had it strapped to my calf this one time i hulied, and the movement of my leg in the water pulling myself back into the boat shook the gps down around my ankle...  i probably woudln't have made it off my foot, but still was one of those "oh ****, that was close" moments....

 Since I own my own oc1 I used part of a earthquake strap kit which I got at steveston marine to mount my gps on my oc1 .

  There is a part of the kit that has a two-way mount that is supposed to hold the supplied straps but instead I cut down my gamin strap slightly to allow it to slide into the locking mount and then I clamp the strap with the mount which is 2 way taped to the boat( it comes that way ) .The mounts are small squares w/ a locking clamp type system.( its hard to explain ,you have to see it ) I used 2 side by side and slide my garmin strap through them and lock the clamps down .The clamps are designed to be tightened by hand and it takes less than a second to do and I also used a marine grade velcro round small piece as well on the back of the unit and on the oc1 . Most people just assume the clamps are factory because they blend in and I have huli'd 3 times and its never even moved .The best part is the clamps come off easy if needed and require no drilling

 (http://quakehold.com/media/images/4065contents.JPG)

 if you see me on my yellow/blue hurricane just ask me to see what I did and I'll show you .Most people that have seen it like it

 

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/spo/229131277.html

Anyone looking for a GPS?  Someone posted a Garmin 301 for $200... probably negotiable.  It's a super deal.

So duct tape / velcro is the way to go to attach it to the boat.  Are the numbers seen clearly from your seating position?

Also, do these GPS systems have light that is constantly on, in case you do night time paddling?

if you want it to be, yep.  you can set the light to come on for X amount of time or leave it on....

Just a thought on the waterproofness issue,



The GPS is designed more to account for accidental drops in water, than for constant use in the rain.

My GPS was ok in the rain, but it was always light/medium rains.  It was after a short/heavy rainfall where the water first worked its way in.  I think the constant splashing water might have worked its way past the seal around the screen or along the edges.  (I have the sealed battery unit model)


Guess what I'm trying to say is if you got one, it wouldn't hurt to throw a ziplock baggie (with a couple slits) over it in the rain.
And it should be fine in the event of a huli. 

this is for 201? 205?

Just a note to Paddleboy. Will you please get rid of that tacky Steve Irwin bit on your replys? The man has been long buried. Not funny.

201.  I assume they use the same design method for both models since they conform to the same waterproofness standard.  So It wouldn't hurt to rig something up, if anything for peace of mind.

I'm going to check around to see if anyone makes a small sized ziplock back.  Right now I use a folded over sandwich size ziplock for the 201.  Slit a couple holes for the straps, one layer of clear packing tape for strength (otherwise you get small tears from repeated use) and you're ready for Bisley.

kraft.

 don't look at it then .....

yeah the 201 don't do well when you huli... *ahem*... i huli'd *ahem* with... *ahem* (someone's)... 201 in the summer  :lol:  there was water that leaked in and got stuck behind the lcd screen.  bagging it would help against external elements but other than that... try to keep it out of the water as much as possible. 

My Garmin Forerunner 201 seems to be just fine after dips in water (usually due to flying the ama a bit too high).

Aquapac makes several small drybags for cameras, GPSs and PDAs. I've purchased them from MEC and Ocean River (in Victoria).

we're not really looking for drybags....   thats for storing stuff while paddling.  we want something to keep the GPS relatively dry while keeping it out in the open/visible to aid with training. 

colossus, i think the product kripple is refering to is the Aquapac Pro Sports Mini Case

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442618632&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302700553&bmUID=1162834952254

nice looking bag.... plus is it has a strap to strap the GPS to your leg or OC etc. it's more durable than a zip lock bag, but it's NOT cheap.  $40?!   :shock:

my question would probably be the ease of use once the GPS is inside the bag.  we all know how problematic it is to hit the "start" and "stop" buttons etc. when we are on the water.  (especially when you have gloves on.)   will the bag hinder the use of the tiny buttons on the GPS?   knowing that will help in the decision whether this type of bag is right for you or not.  anyone used this product?

thanks glowingice. I use the flip phone Aquapac for my cell phone on any boat I'm paddling in, and am quite happy with it. I've heard TOO many stories about coaches losing their cell phones to the Creek. Really. $40 is not a lot to pay to save your phone/GPS/camera from even one dunking in the Creek. I'm surprised that more paddlers aren't using Aquapacs; I've seen alot of (completely ineffective) ziploc baggie solutions.

I also use a small camera bag for my digital camera. It doesn't work as good, but that's because my current "small" digital camera is really too big for the bag when the lens is extended. I've seen other people use the the camera bag with their digital camera with great results. In fact, it was used during OC6/OC1 huli drills a few weeks ago with great results -- by seat 1 of the OC6!  I think the photos are postes somewhere...

If the buttons are too small for clumsy fat fingers in gloves, use a chopstick or pen (just not the sharp pointy end, duh...)

just for kicks I did a search for waterproof cell phones:

http://news.com.com/2061-10801_3-5997040.html

http://www.mobilewhack.com/reviews/sony_so902iwp_water-proof_cell_phone.html

Pretty nice if you can afford it!

kripple:  unfortuately the design of the garmin does not have user friendly buttons on the face. 
how thick is the clear PVC?  if you have seen a garmin 201 or 301 it's retangular and flat (shape of an ipod nano).  it has buttons on the side of the GPS, not the face.  my initial guess is that it's not easy to press small buttons once the GPS is inside the bag.

swordfish:  that sony phone looks cool... dropping your cell phone in the toilet?  disinfectant not included.  but i guess false creek could almost be the equivalent  :lol:

you don't really need access to the buttons during a workout...  all you need to do is to be able to see the screen.  set your custom screen to what you want to be able to view, set your program into it, and off you go.

Take your GPS to MEC and try it in the Aquapacs. If they are out of stock, try ecomarine on Granville Island. The kayak/dive shop on 4th near Fir also carries Aquapac.

http://www.aquapac.net/

Huli photos from a digital camera in an Aquapac http://picasaweb.google.com/lamont.moon/HuliPractice (http://picasaweb.google.com/lamont.moon/HuliPractice)

For the last 2 seasons, I used a Motorola MPx220 Windows Smartphone with a bluetooth Pharos GPS 360 unit.  Next season, I'll be using an HTC TyTN PDA phone with the same bluetooth GPS unit.

How're the responses from the cell phones?

Just wondering if you've tried and compare handsets to the garmin 205