Dragon Boat West

(http://www.vancourier.com/issues06/101106/photos/top-4.3239.jpg)

http://www.vancourier.com/issues06/101106/news/101106nn4.html


City adds island sanctuary to Southeast False Creek project

By Mike Howell-Staff writer

An island the size of a football field is being built in Southeast False Creek for public use and to attract marine and bird life.

But it will not in any way duplicate Granville Island with shops and restaurants, said Jody Andrews, project manager for the Southeast False Creek development and Olympic Village.

"It won't be set up as an urban experience," Andrews said. "It'll be a sense of discovery. So, there's no bridge, there's no foot path [to the island]. You go out at low tide, you come back at low tide."

The island's location is just east of the Cambie Bridge on the south shore of the creek. A would-be explorer will have to walk 20 to 30 metres from shore to reach it. Even with the tide in, Andrews said the channel will be quite shallow.

Andrews said the city is still deciding which types of plants and trees will be planted. But, he said, they will "harken back to the mid-1800s" before the industrialization of False Creek.

"Some of the things that used to exist in the area might surprise people-crab apples. We used to have crab apples along there."

News of an island comes as a surprise since it wasn't in the original plans for the Southeast False Creek development.


...

it will be come a homeless squatters haven ....I can see it now  :wall: .

 Did anyone else ever see the guy living on a huge block of styrofoam on the water w/ a tent on top and paddling around that area...crazy !

agreed, and yes.     i can't wait.  :roll:

have any of these idiots been to false creek lately???  the only thing that lives in that water is the mutant seal and those **** eating crabs.  how is this island going to help with the lack of outflow and the pollution that's already there?  I can't believe they're wasting 2 million on this.  what a joke

sigh.. no offense to those who love birds and marine life... but this is one of the dumbest projects and waste of tax payer's money i have seen.  why not spend the money to properly clean up our city and especially false creek... wouldn't a clean city and water be a better sense of discovery?  i think it's such an inconvenience for paddlers to build such a POS in false creek.
just my two cents...

agreed, is this project confirmed to go ahead, if it is, there goes more practice space,

don't you find it funny that it's an unplanned "surprise"?

"It'll be a place to go if you're finding the urban world around you to be too much. You can step out on to this island and likely there'll be a heron, some seagulls and some seals paddling by."

 :lol:

and you would find various species of crack heads, bums, and junkies of all sorts, and it'll be stinking up with the smell of garbage and fc sewage

ditto luke... and it's open to the public.  don't forget the bums and crack heads that will make it their sanctuary... it's bad enough that DZ docks smell like urine...  tent city 2 anyone?

Hey! Crackheads are people too! How do you think this idea came about?

Seriously though, how did something like this get approved without being brought to the public's attention?  Like there isn't enough boat traffic in the Creek already so let's make it even narrower?

Can you even run a festival race course down the creek now?

IF....and I use this term "gingerly".....all of you sound soooo opposed to this,
why doesn't anybody organize a "FLASH MOB" in front of Vancouver's City Hall to
protest this plan?

IF...you don't say anything and put a stoppage to this...they will never know you don't want this.

SPEAK OUT people.
Let's have a rally ....and allow ALL PADDLERS TO UNITE.....if you got a backbone.

WOW....I haven't been on here in such a long time...didn't notice the "Spell Check" button....no wonder Paddle"boy" has been writing grammatically and alphabetically correctly!!!!!

hahaha!  welcome back guido! :lol:  you may have also noticed that i'm no longer the title holder of the "worst paddling ability".  :(

I'm down for a Tuesday-held rally of sorts.  or some other weekday (besides thursday) that ends by 12 (gotta go to class...  :roll: )
if they're going to be creating said "island" out to where the yellow things are, then it will indeed infringe upon the Alcan race course. 

 I think its pretty much too late as they have already started building the island so not sure how you could stop it now

 I luv my spellcheck !  :dance:

Go in every night and scoop out the landfill they've dumped in during the day.

Jody Andrews, project manager for the Southeast False Creek development and Olympic Village was quoted in that article.

All the contact information is found:
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/commsvcs/southeast/contact.htm

Southeast False Creek: Get in Touch

There are many ways to get in touch with the SEFC Planning Group if you have specific questions:

Mail your comments to us:

Southeast False Creek
Current Planning Division, Community Services
#406 - 515 West 10th Avenue
Vancouver, BC V5Z 4A8

Email the team directly at:
[email protected]

Call us at:
Southeast False Creek Public Lands

Kyra Lubell: 604.871.6863
Michael Naylor: 604.871.6168

Southeast False Creek Private Lands

Hugo Blomfield: 604.873.7559
Grant Miller: 604.873.7447
John Madden: 604.871.6659

Southeast False Creek Project Office

Kirsten Robinson: 604.871.6889
Jody Andrews: 604.871.6859
Ian Smith: 604.871.6857

Thanks Paddlebunny....   I was just writing to add the links when you beat me to it.

The public discussions and forums for South East False Creek have been going on for three years + .  I participated in some and emphasized the need for recreational space for dragon boats.  Other people in the community have also talked with the organizing groups at various stages.  Dragon Zone (ADBF) must surely be consulting with them, as they want to maintain a "boathouse" in the area. 

There was a plan/idea to store dragon boats under the Cambie St. Bridge - don't know if it is still active.  Other ideas discussed included turning the East Bay (East of Cambie St. Bridge) into a non-motor zone - with the marina grandfathered in.  The marina meanwhile has applied for expansion.  Don't know about further developments since last year. 

Here's how South side will look (with the island):
http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/commsvcs/southeast/odp/index.htm (http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/commsvcs/southeast/odp/index.htm)

Concord is developing the north side.  The present parking lot will become a huge north side park extension of Creekside Park - perfect for holding future dragon boat festivals -
http://www.concordpacific.com/ourneighbourhood/creeksideneig.html (http://www.concordpacific.com/ourneighbourhood/creeksideneig.html)

So...  Here's how north side will look (according to Concord):
http://www.concordpacific.com/ourneighbourhood/ourneighbourhood.html (http://www.concordpacific.com/ourneighbourhood/ourneighbourhood.html)

UNFREAKING BELIEVABLE!! That is all I gotta say. It just makes me wanna screaaaaaaaaammmm!! Just like my photo!! I am with Guido on this. Set something up. Tell us all about it. Make sure the word gets out and I will be there. But do this fast!!

Based on looking at the plan (thanks for the City link) it looks like the "island" will be positioned roughly where the barges use to be.  If that is the case it may not be any worse than having the barge(s) there (for the races at least). I emphasize the MAYBE.

I went to a couple of their planning meetings and I do not remember seeing an island in any of their renderings but again I missed the last few open houses.  Guess I shouldn't have :-0.

I do agree it will be a homeless heaven.  If they make camp there then they won't be homeless will they (LOL).

I also agree that numbers make a difference so plan something and get the word out.

don't know how that'll work if they wanted them litterally under the bridge.  with the tides, they'd have to put them under the dead center, thereby blocking off any traffic at low tide.

Here's a skeleton letter, tailer it to yourself

To Jody Andrews,

With regard to the so called "Sanctuary Project", I've composed this letter to express my concern for your ability to manage a sensitive project such as this.  The idea of having an unregulated park area so near downtown east side  is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. 

As a paddler who spend at least 5 days a week on the water, both coaching and paddling, as well as work at the dragonboat facility beside science world, I can guarantee that, the construction of this island will only become a camping ground for the homeless so common to the area.  Placing the island in the middle of the creek will NOT prevent them from infesting it.  In case you haven't witnessed the situation down at False Creek, there are people living in a tent while floating on blocks of Styrofoam.(I quote paddleboy).  They live under aquabus docks beside science world, the wooded area beside the dog park, and they will live on that island. Being an unregulated and secluded space, it will become a garbage dump for the homeless, and a haven for drug dealers.

In addition, a land mass of such proportion will only cut down the already narrow channel, restricting tide flow, and causing aggregation of sludge in False Creek, adding on the degradation of the water condition.  Venture down to False Creek again at low tide and no moon and tell me that the creek is as wide as the map amplifies it to be.

please do not waste any more of the tax payers money,

sincerely,,

Concerned Citizen

that's my flaming letter, I plan to soak it in false creek sludge and send it with no return address on the envelope, you may copy and paste on e-mail or print out to flood their mailbox

excuse my grade school writting skills

I called the Southeast False Creek development office and asked a few questions out of personal curiosity/interest only.

I agree with earlier comments that it may be too late to stop the work since it’s already begun.  However it’s a good learning experience for all of us to pay more attention to what is going on.  Although, in this case the public doesn’t seem to have been given the chance to voice their opinions or concerns ahead of time…..so maybe it’s a good idea to let them know you wanted at least a chance to speak your mind first.  Let's try to keep them honest.

I think the conversation I had with this person made me even more curious as to how the decision to spend $2M for an unplanned island came about.   I realize some of my questions are probably the result of not knowing what discretion the city actually has when it comes to creating and spending budgets before (or if)  they have to get public approval.   (I guess I need to better educate myself).

How much money can the city allocate to a project without the public being made aware first?  The city advised the public of every other step in this process through public planning sessions and newspaper articles– why not this one?  She could not referr me to any documents for the public because she wasn't aware of any having ever been drawn up.

According to the person I spoke to, she said in the original plan (and budget) they were planning to remove some old dock where this new island is being built, and then it was brought to their attention that under and/or around this existing dock there was potential for natural habitat there.  That was the beginning of the island idea.  According to her, it was an organization called B.E.R.K. that originally suggested this island (Whatever or whoever they are- she wasn't sure and I don't know either.)

She even mentioned that not everyone involved in the project internally was expecting this either.  So, who really made the call on this $2M expense?

Additional questions for the city if you are contacting them:

Did anyone actually consider other options before spending this money?  For example:

–   Spending $2M on cleaning up the water?
–   Spending $2M on affordable housing for the poor and/or middle income families to enjoy the new area?
NOTE:  The original plan allowed for 1/3 low income housing, 1/3 middle income, 1/3 high end.
TODAY the plan (according to this person I spoke to) is about 100 low income units and the rest high end.

–   Did the engineers consider the width of the waterway and how much room will be left?
–   Safety.  Apparently, there will be no bridge or walkway to this island.  Only accessible depending on the tide.   --Hmmmm – anyone want to swim in False Creek?

Keep in mind the person I spoke to was not in a position of authority, she works in that department. The best person to get hold of with your concerns would be Jody Andrews as mentioned in above posts.

Maybe they thought it would be a good idea for all the dragon-boaters, squatters and homeless to get together and play the next Survivor – False Creek Island???


Ok.  Nuff said by me.  Have a good weekend everyone  :)

interesting info.  thanks for getting that

Would this just be a place for a landfill ? so they can dump excess material into the creek for cheap , and then call it an island? lol

Ok - so THIS is the last post from me on this subject.  The question remains... will this island affect the Alcan Dragonboat Festival next year or not?

maybe we can relocate alcan to trout lake or deer lake

looking at the course area today, yes it will affect the festival layout.  they might be able to shift it somehow to accomadate the full 500m, but they may not.  *shrug*

trout lake is pretty gross too, although it would be a pretty cool venue and allow viewing along most of the race course if its long enough/straight enough.  load and unload kelowna style?   never checked out deer lake, so i can't comment on that place. 

Deer Lake is a definite no-no Zephy!

I used to be a lifeguard on that Lake when they allowed swimming there (I'm starting to date myself here). But no swimming has been permitted there for the last dozen years or so because of the high fecal coliform counts thanks to the birds there. Deer Lake is a bird sanctuary so if you think False Creek's fecal coliform count is bad now, wait until the birds make use of the new island there!

When I look at the other venues around the lower mainland that has hosted DB events: Richmond, Barnet Marine Park, Deep Cove...none can accommodate the number of spectators & teams that False Creek can.

Perhaps Alcan will have to re-invent itself as 200m or 250m sprint races. Can you imagine doing the Guts and Glory race on a 250m course! Short track Dragon Boating!  :lol:

Go to the top man ! Get Sam Sullivans comments, after all at the last Alcan he was there with some pretty positive words , here is his webpage,
http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councillors/sullivan/ (http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/councillors/sullivan/)

email him direct [email protected] <[email protected]

Wow!   Thanks to those of you who are diggin in on behalf of all of us who use and love the creek!

Way to 'rock the boat guys!!    :lol:

Burnaby Lake might be an option for the actual racing part of the Alcan Festival, but the site would need
some renovations to be able to host the cultural part of the festival. Here are some random thoughts and
questions about using Burnaby Lake.

- How would the activities and facilities of the Burnaby Canoe And Kayak Club be affected and /or utilised??
- Are there any plans in the works by either the City of Burnaby or a private party to dredge Burnaby Lake
  to remove plantlife that is growing into the lake from the shoreline and the lake bottom??
- The dock that is adjacent to the Burnaby Canoe And Kayak Club would probably have to be enlarged in
  order to accomodate the large number of paddlers loading and unloading for races.
- The grandstand area would have to be renovated. During my last visit to the area I noticed that the
  grandstand area was blocked off and marked as unsafe to use.
- How would an event the size of Alcan affect the environment of Burnaby Lake?
- The actual race site is very accessible via the freeway, and a shuttle service could be set up for people who
  choose to take the skytrain, perhaps at Holdom or Kensington?? station(I think it's called Kensington)
- Parking for those who choose to drive seems to be adequate, although some of the parking lots around the
  hockey rink( i don't remember the name) and soccer pitch are a bit of a walk from the lake. 
- I think that the lake is about 8km long so there is plenty of water to race on.
- It may be possible to reach an agreement with the City of Burnaby to use the soccer pitch and hockey
  arena to house the cultural events.
Lots of questions, not many answers at this time, but if Alcan has to be moved, Burnaby Lake could work.

Any Comments??

just thought of 2 more advantages to moving to burnaby lake.

1) no tides to worry about.

2) no water taxis to play"dodge the boat"with, although "dodge the boat" can sometimes be fun.

rtsdhvy:

I agree with you, Burnaby Lake would be an ideal location for hosting Alcan. Problem is, all 3 levels of government cannot come up with a cost sharing arrangement to turn Burnaby Lake into an international standard rowing facility. The Burnaby Lake Rejuvenation Project was estimated to cost  around $26-$30 million. The city has budgeted for their portion, the provincial liberals had promised $10 million back in May 2005 as part of their election promises (don't know where that promise ended up), and the Fed's, with its minority gov'ts and its already committed funding to 2010, do not have the $$ to contribute to the project.

I do believe that some small scale dredging is taking place. But the scale of dredging that is req'd to bring Burnaby Lake to international standards to host rowing, canoeing & kayak (& DB) events would take about 3-5 years from what I have read. That is the dredging part. As you've pointed out, the grandstands & docks also need to be upgraded/replaced and that is not going to happen until the dredging is done (Chicken & the Egg scenario).

You've brought up another issue that stands as an obstacle...the environmental aspect. Bby Lake is a wildlife habitat & bird sanctuary. Conservationists and environmental groups have been quite vocal about preserving the lake as a wildlife & bird sanctuary and support dredging only to the point where it helps preserve it as such.

It would be nice to see Burnaby Lake host rowing & paddling events again. It did host the 1972 Canada Games and I think the last major event that it hosted was back in the early to mid-80's when it hosted the rowing & paddling events for the BC Summer Games.

I think the city would be receptive to being able to host a large event like Alcan. Not that I have any inside scoop, just basing it on the fact that the city has committed the money to the Rejuvenation Project, built Bill Copeland arena, built additional soccer & rugby pitches and supported the expansion of the then 4-Rinks into 8-Rinks which are all within the vicinity of Burnaby Lake. The whole plan around the Burnaby Lake area was to turn Burnaby into a sports & recreation mecca. An international rowing & paddling facility would enhance that.

Ummm ...

Myself, I don’t think I’ll put much faith in any last-ditch effort to change any of this (with due apologies to Guido, Colossus, & the others suggesting a protest of some sort).

The politicos & bureaucrats are off & running on their whole Grand Vision for SEFC.  They’ve done all the “community input” they’re ever going to, have done a sh*t-load of papers & presentations to Van City Council & its committees – & it all went thru over the last several years.

I very much doubt you’re going to be able deflect them at this juncture.  It’s a done deal.

The Courier story says the idea for the island was “really one of those ideas that came to be“, which seems to have been taken here to mean “just recently”.

But it is not all that new.

Y'all might want to look at the SEFC info "tour" videos linked on these two pages:

http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/Greaterdot_wa/index.cfm?fuseaction=GVTV.storyDet&storyid=507
  (02 Nov 2005)

and http://www.city.vancouver.bc.ca/greaterdot_wa/index.cfm?fuseaction=GVTV.storyDet&storyId=578
 (16 Oct 2006)

(BTW – seems kind of odd that the videos mention kayaking … but there’s no DBs or outriggers anywhere to be seen.)

In the 2005 tour, the presenter (the same Jody Andrews referred to above - City-of-Van SEFC project manager) talks about the new island, at about 3/4 of the way thru the video.  He appears to be standing on the NE corner of the barge moored closest to the Cambie bridge, when he says "the island will be right here" (or words to that effect).

The presenter in the 2006 video (one of the project engineers, pretty dialed-in – she sure reels off the numbers & details right smartly), mentions the island, but only in passing.

From the videos, it looks to me that the island will be no more or less of an impediment to our various paddling activities than the barge now is.  Excuse me sah, is this the Tsartlip Island Pub?

(can’t be sure, though, since I can’t find any detailed drawings of the island, or anything else, on the various SEFC web sites - lots of smallish artistic renderings, but nothing that gives actual dimensions & locations)

But whatever the actual size & location, yeah - I think that a "permanent barge" is a BAD idea!!

Maybe Alcan will have to go to 250 metre races, when the dust settles.  Or hey … a 500 metre Guts & Glory for each race?  Hah!!

Take a look at the race course photo from 2004 – then try to fit in a 9-lane, 500 metre course, plus pre-start area & finish run-out, into the water space left over if there’s a “football field” sized island plunked down where the left-most barge is sitting in this photo.  Sigh …

And yeah, a "walk across the inter-tidal channel to get to it" island is a REALLY DUMB IDEA!

Let’s see here.  Walk across a TIDAL channel?  A 15-foot range, two Highs per day, tidal channel?  20 or 30 metres of sea bottom, sluiced two times per day each way with FC’s “interesting” water & all the flotsam & jetsam we see at every practice?  I think I’d want hip-waders … at the very least …

Hello, C-of-V Engineering?  Have any of you folks ever taken notice of the MANY stories out of Richmond about the "walk across to ..." island out here, Shady Island?  Especially the many times someone has had to be rescued after getting stranded by a rising tide?  Even a few drownings (see http://www.richmond-news.com/issues05/072105/news/072105nn5.html).

Similar physical layout, expect it’s natural (sort of – some of the island is river dredgings).  See http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=London+Road,+Richmond,+BC&ie=UTF8&t=h&om=1&z=17&ll=49.115526,-123.155183&spn=0.005878,0.016479&iwloc=A

At low tide, there's a strip of dried-out river bottom, running from that little bit of sticking-out land just East of the #2 Road pier, over to the tip of the island.  A couple of times each year, someone strolls blithely across it … despite the warning signs … then gets stranded by the rising tide, so then Daddy Evolution's gene-pool weed-whacker tries to go to work … except that we can't stand to watch ... so the silly-nauts get rescued.

Hmmm … maybe there’s a new way of team fund-raising here!  “Rides back to shore in a gen-u-wine dragon boat, only $20!!!” would make a fine sign on all the Coaches’ back-sides, don’cha think?

Tell me, Mr. Andrews - have you run your nice “island dream” past any of the hard-working folks-in-blue in the Van Police Dept?  No?  Uhhh … don’t you think maybe they already have enough to do, protecting us against the Real Bad Dudes, without adding yet another dark corner for them to have to look after??

Ah, what the heck - druggies & squatters & such-like will make a fine bit of “authentic local ambience” for the up-scale SEFC home-steaders’ water views, come post-2010.

Save yer energy fer paddlin’, people … t’aint nuthin much else sensible … IMHO!!!  Be grateful they’re not trying to pave over the whole East end of the Creek (“hey, think of all the **extra** tax revenue we’d raise!!!”).

Dan

Burnaby lake will need to be dredged quite a bit.  A canoe/kayak course does not need to be as deep as a DB course, anyone raced in Montreal Basin in a DB?  Yes some have and it is a bad site for DB.  You can see the boats all getting dragged down the course because of the reflection (the water hitting the bottom and coming back up).  Montreal is great for getting to know how to wasjh ride though (IMO).  If Montreal is a good example of a kayak/canoe course then Burnaby course will not be that good (I would want the water to be at least 5 meters for DB).

Now if they dredge it deep enough then yes it will be great but I doubt they will dredge it that deep.

 Guess we could always change the race to the Alcan Sprints ........200 or 250 meters of everything you got .........how fun would that be  :)  200's rock !

there'd be be quite a bit of dredging to do then...

was at Burnaby today, and about 50m^2 of a circular area smack in the middle of the course was so shallow that my paddle hit the mud, and I was in a small boat,

also, I heavily doubt there are any room for spectators as the whole area is surrounded by woodland and inaccessible, unless you want to go into the marsh.

Burnaby tried to hold a very small youth DB regatta last year, 10 elementary schools and 4 HS, and even then they had some problems accommodating us.  There was only room for a 200m course 4 lane, and I believe that's the maximum extent.

Excerpted from the engineering report for the Burnaby Lake Rejuvenation Project:

2.2.3 Option 3 (Environmental and Recreational Enhancement)

In addition to Option 2, seven areas are identified for recreational enhancement. This would improve lake access and provide more open water for recreational canoeing and kayaking. This option would also include a four lane training course for rowers. The course would utilize the four southern lanes originally built in 1971 for the 1973 Canadian Games. The course dimensions would be 2166 m long, 54 m wide, and 2 m deep. A plan and cross sections of the four lane training course are included in Appendix F.

2.2.4 Option 4 (International Standard Rowing Course)

Option 4 is similar to Option 3 except that an international standard rowing course is proposed rather than the training rowing course. The international standard rowing course would have six racing lanes, two warm-up lanes and two buffer lanes. The location and dimensions of the international standard rowing course would be the same as the original rowing course built in 1971. The course dimensions are given in Table 1. Dredge volumes were calculated for both 2 m and 3 m deep courses. Dimensional drawings of the proposed international standard rowing course are included in Appendix F.

Table 1
Proposed Rowing Course Dimensions
Length
“Start ” to “Finish ”           2000m
Bottom Length               2166m
Shore to Shore               2182m

Width
Racing Lanes                      6 at 13.5 m each
Warm-Up Lanes                  2 at 13.5 m each
Buffer Lanes                     2 at 8.0 each
Bottom Width                      124.0 m



Depth
Option 4a            2.0 m
Option 4b             3.0 m


2.2.5 Dredge Volumes

The dredge volume for each dredge site and each option are provided in Table 2 in Section 2.7.Options 4A and 4B refer to the 2 m and 3 m dredge depths respectively for the international standard rowing course.

Tiger raises a valid point, even if Burnaby Lake was dredged to 2-3m, it may be too shallow for DB.

To Luke's point:

It wasn't always like that! Nature has a way of taking back what is hers if left alone long enough!  :lol:

after thinking it over, i do see the merits to this type of project.  If you realize that Vancouver as a destination has a lot to offer, mild climate, mountains, oceans, excellent areas for outdoor activity etc etc... something like this does add another dimension or element to the city.

And when you realize that there are a ton of people who travel that along that stretch everyday, well, why not?  It's a fine way to beautify the city.  at least till the bums move in.

Of course, this is all very ironic, setting up a fine little 'island' in the middle of a toilet bowl.  I think everyone here would be very impressed if these plans included something to address all the sources of extreme pollution in these waters.  I found 3 needles during the 06 season for instance.  Nasty

i found 3 dead rats, and 2 live ones! :lol:  and there was a dead body found at one of our practices  8))

dead body?  you serious...fc men hit a swimmer at 20km/h with a db?

no, on one of the saturday OC practices there was a dead body found floating in alder bay i think it was. unfortunately, i had work that morning and missed practice.  :(

it's happened before.  someone commits suicide off Granville Bridge, and the current take them into Alder Bay.