Dragon Boat West

With the Richmond Festival running the same weekend as the Harrison one, does anyone know which teams are planning on racing in Richmond?

I know Acme is.  We have a title to defend.

winning the "b" final doesn't give you a title to defend......

rgl will be there

Jackass #1- you obviously noticed us! How flattering! And silver in Comp B- is actually setting the bar high.

Whoa now Jackass, and just how fitting a name.  I believe Ms Angel was referring to their title from last years Richmond Festival and not this years Alcan. 

I believe Ms Angle was refering to two years ago.  Don't think ACME was there last year

It's Angel,  not Angle, and yes we were there last year.  As some of you know we merged with Roli last year and competed.

Who won the B final?
We got second place.

Acme won the Richmond Regatta the last two years they competed (2003 and 2004).  THat is the title they will be defending.

you still don't have a title...... maybe if you won LAST year then you could talk big but until you win this year, try to keep it down.
btw, good luck!!!!!  :lol:

Hey Jackass#1

Getting back to the original point of this thread...you haven't indicated if you and your team will be there in Richmond.

If you're going to be dissing your fellow paddlers and their respective teams (and their accomplishments) I hope you have enough game in your paddling to back you up...

Does anyone have a list of the teams that will be competing in Richmond? Thanks!

evil: gotta love how people sign up just to make one or two posts because they're too scared to use their real accounts, eh?

BOO Zephyrantes!  Quit bashing the poor defenseless troll spammer! BOO!

Hey Zephyrantes....I'm assuming you're talking about jackass#1 and not me!  :)

I know sssteam heat will be there (Richmond..that is).  Should be good racing...who else is going???

I cant find the website for this one either ! :doh: anyone have the address?

evil: yes I was... no worries man.. we're square.

Hey Ian: Here's the link to the festival's website: http://www.gorowandpaddle.org/events/richmond_festival.php

Festival supposedly accommodates up to 48 teams....but with Harrison running the same weekend, I'm curious as to how that will impact the numbers and the depth of the field in Richmond. Irrespective of that, given the depth of teams in the lower mainland, the fraser valley and the island (and hopefully some of our friends from stateside show up too), it should still be a decent field and good racing in Richmond!

I'm hoping somebody from Go Row & Paddling will post the list of teams or provide the race grid for the weekend....

For everyone that was looking for the Richmond schedule of teams, it's at the bottom of the page....
http://www.gorowandpaddle.org/database/img_44bd6190ec7bb.pdf

Here are the teams that are listed in the posted schedule

Acme Canoe
Apalala
Bastion Dragons
Blu By U
Dragon Slayers (Save On Foods)
Dragon Storm
Eh Team
Eye of the Dragon
Finding BMO
Fraser Dragons
GRPC Attention Deficit DB Team
Hardy Herons
Nusa'lon Dragons
Red Fusion
RGL United
Richmond Centre Dragoneers
Ritche Bros Auts.
Scotia Bank Dragons
Shaggin Dragons
Ship of Fools
ssSteam Heat
Strathcona Youth Dragons
Surgin Sturgeons
TBD (to be decided)
Xtreme Reach

Only 25 teams by my count.  Is the low numbers due to the Fraser Valley Festival being on the same day or is this some fallout from the large number of problems and issues at last year's festival?

StraightLine.

My predictions

Acme
Xtreme Reach
Scotia
RGL United
Eye of the Dragon
Dragon Slayers (Save on Foods)
Sssteam Heat

I'm not sure, GRPC could be fast too. If the seeding is done well there's enough closely matched teams to have some close finals.

rb

My Predictions are,

Xtreme Reach
Acme
Scotia
RGL United
Blu by U
SSSteam Heat
Eye of the Dragon

GRPC is a  Jr Team there for race experience

50+ teams in Harrison. Not sure if it was the fiasco from last year or what
Having 3 Regattas on the same day (Vernon , Richmond and Harrison) is not good for racers as it thins out the competition.
That being said I think there is a good group of competative teams at each regatta.
Harrison has more of the Big boys but they are not bringing their top crew which should make for some interesting racing.
Its supposed to 41 in Harrison but at least we have a nice glacier fed lake to splash in...not sure if you want to get too much Richmond water in yo mouth!  :lol:
Have fun everyone and I will be snapping in Harrison.
Hey Photog! You're the man in Richmond!

OK who are GRPC Attention Deficit DB Team?  GRPC I can figure out but at the risk of being politically incorrect... is the as legitimate regular team or is it a thrown together boat from Victoria... can we expect to see a significant portion of the GD's in this boat?

I think this boat may be a suprise... maybe we should be paying attention to them.

GRPC Attention Deficit DB Team is a Junior team of 13 to 17 year olds.  Most are first year paddlers.

:shock: they're dressing GD like 13-17yr olds?  :shock:

... just a heads-up for anyone figuring on setting up your tents exactly where you did in the last couple of years ...

Though we're going to Harrison again (it was much the better regatta, last year), I figured you folks who chose Richmond might like a warning (I see the site all the time, since I usually come into Van across the Densmore Bridge).

The Racer's Village site has moved, down-river.

That's because the new UBC Boathouse is in place!!  It was floated around from the shipyard in Delta (where it was being built) a few weeks ago.  See http://www.ubcgoldforlife.ca/documents/Aprilnewsletter_001.pdf, and the About ... & Image Gallery sections of the main web page (http://www.ubcgoldforlife.ca/) for more info.

Trouble is, it's sited right about at the previous year's DB finish line - or very near to it anyways.  And it's tall & wide enough that it significantly blocks the view from on the dyke behind it.

It's not completed yet - seems to be still mostly the outer shell (like in the construction photos), from what I can see from the bridge.  And the docks look only partly complete, so you guys won't be using them for this year's races.

The Race Day info kit on the Richmond web site (http://www.gorowandpaddle.org/database/img_44bd6190ec7bb.pdf) shows that they've moved the race course down-river - so the finish line is not hidden by the boathouse, I assume.  That means that the Beer tent & food stalls & what-not are also moved south ... and so is the R-V area.  Maybe somewhat smaller, too - squeezed up against the bridge?

The other thing to be ready for is that the Start Line is now well to the South of the Densmore - which means you'll be racing under the bridge, maybe about 45 secs into the race.  And that might be some fun ... there's a big Low to High tide on Staurday (~10 AM thru ~6 PM, ~12 foot rise), so there'll be a rippin' current running all day, big swirls off the bridge pilings, & so on.

It'lll be hard to get an even line-up on the Start, too.  But I bet there will be some FAST times, with that much help from the tidal current!!   :o

Have fun, y'all!!

Oh yeah - bring lots of sun-screen & water ... if it's going to be 41º for us out at Harrison on Saturday, it'll be in the mid-30s here ...

Dan

ooh, that sounds like its going to be a lot of fun, epsecially for some of the more novice teams :?  how much space is there between pilings?  is this another potential for boat swamping?  (and on that topic, what kind of boats?)

Swamping?  I'm thinking more along the lines of crunching - boats, paddles, and paddlers into the pilings.  Hopefully it will be one boat per "lane" through the pilings, but the potential for disaster is huge.  Someone should sit there with a camera....

Since the organizers are GO, the boats will be Millenium (Nanaimo, Victoria).

Good luck everyone!

StraightLine.

oh fun.  :roll:

Ya, the obstacles are there but in 5 years of paddling there, I've yet to see any kind of serious incident!

If ya have people who know how to steer, it's really not an issue.

First of, congratulations to all the winners of the Richmond Dragon Boat Regatta.  The festival overall was pretty satisfactory.  The racing side of it...well here are the results...you be the judge.

Blue Final A
Lane 3     Finding BMO                                 1:23.54
Lane 1     Dragon Slayers (Save On Foods)    1:23.75
Lane 4     ssSteam Team                             1:24.39
Lane 2     Xtreme Reach                              1:29.40

Blue Final B
Lane 4     Acme Canoe                                 1:23.42
Lane 3     Blu By U                                       1:28.80
Lane 1     Richmond Centre Dragoneers         1:33.70
Lane 2     RGL United                                   1:34.04

Red Final A
Lane 1     Eye Of The Dragon                        1:26.48
Lane 3     Scotia Bank Dragons                      1:27.57
Lane 4     Bastion Dragons                            1:33.18
Lane 2     Red Fusion                                   1:45.14

Red Final B
Lane 1     Nusa'lon Dragons                           1:37.59
Lane 4     Strathcona Youth Dragons              1:41.70
Lane 3     Apalala                                         1:45.94
Lane 2     Shaggin Dragons                            1:46.81

White Final A
(Forgot to get stats for this race)

White Final B
Lane 3     Ship Of Fools                                        1:49.10
Lane 1     Hardy Herons                                        1:53.86
Lane 2     GRPC Adolescent Dragonboat Disorder     2:05.36

White Final C
Lane 1     Fraser Dragons                                     1:53.73
Lane 2     Dragon Storm                                       1:54.42
Lane 3     Eh Team                                              2:04.75


How the top teams did throughout the day.

Finding BMO (Alcan Rec A Con. 6th)
Race 1 1st Lane 3  1:49.62
Race 2 1st Lane 1  1:37.20
Race 3 1st Lane 3  1.23.54

Dragon Slayers (Save On Foods)
Race 1 1st Lane 3  1:47.48
Race 2 2nd Lane 3 1:42.31
Race 3 2nd Lane 1 1:23.75

ssSteam Team
Race 1 1st Lane 2  1:42.62
Race 2 2nd Lane 4 1:35.67
Race 3 3rd Lane 4  1:24.39

Xtreme Reach
Race 1 1st Lane 2  1:43.21
Race 2 1st Lane 3  1:35.53
Race 3 4th Lane 2  1:29.40

Acme Canoe (Alcan Comp B 2nd)
Race 1 1st Lane 2 1:38.70
Race 2 4th Lane 2 1:38.05
Race 3 1st lane 4 1:23.42

Blu By U (Alcan Rec C Final 1st)
Race 1 1st Lane 2  1:57.10
Race 2 3rd Lane 4  1:42.64
Race 3 2nd Lane 3 1:28.80

Richmond Centre Dragoneers (Alcan Rec C Con. 3rd)
Race 1 1st Lane 3  1:52.14
Race 2 4th Lane 2  1:44.28
Race 3 3rd Lane 1  1:33.70

RGL United (Alcan Comp C 2nd)
Race 1 1st Lane 2 1:45.36
Race 2 3rd Lane 1 1:36.70
Race 3 4th Lane 2 1:34.04

Eye Of The Dragon (Alcan Comp C 3rd)
Race 1 2nd Lane 2 1:52.14
Race 2 2nd Lane 2 1:41.54
Race 3 1st Lane 1  1:26.48

Scotia Bank Dragons (Alcan Comp B 8th)
Race 1 2nd Lane 2 1:54.56
Race 2 1st Lane 1 1:41.33
Race 3 2nd Lane 3 1:27.57

This is by no means trying to take away anything from the teams that won.  However does anyone else see a pattern? Was it the lane? or was it the boat? Lane 2 teams didn't really have much luck in the latter half of the day.  Sure some of these teams my not have their "A" roster with them, but really, did the best team win the festival? Xtreme Reach, ssSteam, Acme, and Scotia are my no means 'weak' teams.  How on earth were they not able to be to win?  Honestly on any given day outside of the Fraser River, they would smoke most of the teams.

I was shocked by the outcome as well...there was no doubt in my mind going in to that last race it would be between extreme and sssteam, but it is what it is (for whatever reason). I'm not going to whine or speculate (not implying that any one is) because the last thing we need is 8 pages of controversy over this like last year! Congrats to BMO and Save On Foods!!

Overall I thot the festival was well run. They were on time (or ahead by the end of it). Pretty laid back. Also, the volunteers did a great job on and off the docks. Kudos to them! :clap:

On the downside, how could the beer garden run out of lager??? Hot day, thirsty dragonboaters....  :?

On the racing side, certainly the variance in conditions/boats across the lanes made for really interesting races. That being said, that's racing for ya!

It wasn't lane 2, it was boat 2 used in even heats, it was a little less clean than the other boats!   :?

It sank us in the first race and quite a few others judging by the inverted Vs and the close races between lane 2 and others when lane 2 did manage to get past the boat curse.

Victims of the boat curse in the first round....
Scotia (wound up in red), Eye of the Dragon (wound up in red), Us (TBD - mix of Fifth Moon, Navy, PI and Dragonauts - wound up in white), and Blu By U (who managed to get first in their race although their time was around the same as our third place finish in our first race a couple heats earlier)

As for white final A, TBD had a time of 1:37 or 1:38 or something like that.  We were racing Ritchie Bros and Surging Sturgeons but I don't remember which came second or third

Will be interesting to follow the boat when the full results come out, just take a look at lane 2 in alternating heats and you'll see your pattern!

Despite that, it was a lot of fun and well run, it's always great when we get ahead of schedule and can catch an earlier ferry!

Second in the White A Final behind TBD and ahead of Surgin' Sturgeons was us, Ritchie Bros. Auctionauts ... not "Auts" (bad day for the typist in the Richmond Festival admin office all around) ... was our first bling.

Timing sounds right at 1:37 or 1:38 for TBD. The results sheet was taken down soon after posting as they had mixed up 'lane' and 'place' in the original posting but I caught a glimpse of the torn up version ... for one glooorious second, it was nice to see us in "1", even if it was a typo.

If anyone's already done the legwork, does ya know who the other Richmond teams were besides Richmond Centre (congrats, practice-time neighbours!), Sturgeons, Herons and ourselves ... forgive my ignorance but was too busy to do my own reconaissance. Appreciated ...

River water is to False Creek water as fruit nectar is to crude oil. The sunsets are just as nice and we're dodging airplanes instead of aquabuses ... it's just lonlier with one ol' lil' boat to practice in when there's all that water. (Thanks to the Festival for accomodating our corporate challenge with an extra, early boat.)

See you in Kelowna.

July 23, 2006

Ava Storey
Richmond Dragon Boat Festival Race Coordinator
GO Rowing & Paddling Association of Canada
2940 Jutland Road,  Suite 115
Victoria, BC V8T 5K6

Dear Ava:

Re: Fifth Annual Richmond Dragon Boat Festival

I write to you because of my recent experience with the 2006 Richmond Dragon Boat Festival yesterday.

I participated in this event as a substitute for a paddler on Xtreme Reach, a GRPC dragon boat team.  During this event, I found my fellow paddlers excited and friendly, the volunteers earnest and effective, the vendors informative and courteous, various staff (traffic attendants, police, etc.) useful, and the spectators were fun.  The event ran on time.   These are things I expect from GO Rowing and Paddling to aim for in their projects.

My problem stems from the racing aspect of this festival. 

On race 15, Blue Semi 1, the team I paddled with came in first.  I was surprised to find out we overwhelmed ACME Canoe Club by 2.52 seconds, who placed fourth in that heat.  Some of their paddlers and some spectators I spoke to said they ran a good race.  One ACME paddler even went to state it was probably was a bad race for them.  I chalked this one up for Neptune.  Similar to myself, he seemed very cheerful about the festival and planned to come in first in the last race.  I noted his boat was labeled WHITE 2.

On race 22, Blue Final A, Xtreme Reach paddled in WHITE 2.  In our dragon boat, as with most, paddlers watch the strokes, strokes listen to the drummer, and the drummer obeys the tiller.  From my perspective, I was on time, the paddlers in front of me were on time, and our boat stayed true.  At the end of the race, my fellow paddlers and I were spent.  We knew it was our best race that day.  Our time showed we had our best time of the day; however, we were 5.01 seconds behind the third place crew in this heat; the same crew we had raced in heat 15 but in that heat we had a time difference of 0.14 seconds. 

Some members of the team took this hard, as the months and years of training seemed for naught.  Although we felt it was our best race of the day, we chalked it up to probably a bad race. Another race went to Neptune.  Life goes on.

I decided to watch the final junior race, race 23.  I noted that lane 2 was having difficulties getting started in the first third of the race.  I also remembered spectators saying these junior boats have done well throughout the day and should have been fairly evenly matched.

I went down to the docks immediately after the competition was over.  Of the boats there, five were clean to fairly clean (no slime) undersides.  On WHITE 2, there was thick slime.  Also, from what I could see, there was algae “tentacle” growth of about 3 cm on the underside on the mid-ship. 

I spoke to a volunteer from GO.  She mentioned that all the boats were from other GO club houses, except for WHITE 2, which was from Richmond.  I know that I volunteered to help clean one of the GRPC boats less than three nights before the competition.  Why was this not done for the WHITE 2 from Richmond?

I know there is a lot happening.  In BC, on the same weekend as the Richmond Dragon Boat Festival, there was the Fraser Valley Dragon Boat Festival and the Vernon Dragon Boat Festival.  This is the same reason why proper procedures must be followed, as there are a lot of choices out there for dragon boat teams.

I speak only as a paddler in this sport.  I do not know what Xtreme Reach, ACME Canoe, TBD or other crews think.  I truly believe that if this were a rowing regatta, this mistake would not have happened.  Bundling dragon boating with canoeing, kayaking and rowing may be a mistake, but an economic necessity.  We may not be an Olympic sport, but all crews that participate in these festivals take competition seriously.  We expect race organizers to level the playing field.  In this case, making sure the boats are clean so the only real variable is the difference between crews, and not their boats.  Please take this letter seriously, as teams from this competition will tell others, and they will vote with their wallets.  There has already been too much controversy for this festival.  I only hope that this is not the fifth and final Richmond Dragon Boat Festival.

Enough whining on my part.

Now the fun stuff.
I am not sure if this will work, but try this one:
Heat Five:
Black 1 - Bastion Dragons, Black 2 - Xtreme Reach, Black 3 - Dragon Storm
[http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/gingersnaps1969/Richmond%20Dragon%20Boat%20Regatta%202006/?action=view&current=ca4a7512.flv]Heat Five Video[/url]

Heat Fifteen - Blue Semi 1
White 1 - RGL United (?), White 2 - ACME Canoe Club Black 3 - Xtreme Reach, White 4 - sssTeamed Heat
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/gingersnaps1969/Richmond%20Dragon%20Boat%20Regatta%202006/6f9225f3.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/gingersnaps1969/Richmond%20Dragon%20Boat%20Regatta%202006/04196837.jpg)
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m92/gingersnaps1969/Richmond%20Dragon%20Boat%20Regatta%202006/843a26e4.jpg)

After reading earlier posts about a slow boat in lane 2 for the even numbered races, I keyed the race results by lane to check for a noticeable boat/lane bias. Here are the total and average placements by lane. Sorry for the length of this post.

lane   race #   1st   2nd   3rd   4th      avg placement
1   odd   1   6   4   0      2.27
   even   4   5   2   0      1.82
2   odd   4   0   3   4      2.64
   even   2   4   2   3      2.55
3   odd   4   3   4   0      2.00
   even   5   2   2   2      2.09
4      2   2   5   0      2.33

1   total   5   11   6   0      2.05
2   total   6   4   5   7      2.59
3   total   9   5   6   2      2.05
4   total   2   2   5   0      2.33

It looks like lane 2 in the odd races placed on average lower than the “dirty” lane 2 boat in the even races. Overall it looks like it was lane 2 itself that was at a disadvantage. Lanes 1 and 3 on average placed much higher. Teams in lane 2 won their share of races (six) but placed 4th a whopping seven times in the nine races that used four lanes.

Looking at the timing of these finishes a pattern emerges. During the morning preliminary races lane 2 presumably hosted the highest seed, meaning that with an average seeding system, lane 2 should have won the majority of the races. Here are the morning (races 1-8) 1st placements by lane:

lane 2 odd: 4 (100%)
lane 2 even: 1 (25%)
lane 3 even: 3 (75%)

Lane 2 even was dirty or otherwise impeded to consistently underperform as it did. We could blame the seeding if all lane 2 teams performed worse than expected, but all top seeds in the odd boat confirmed their seeding, meaning the lane 2 even boat must have been a pig.

This trend of lanes 2 and 3 winning continues until race 12 (scheduled for noon, not sure what time it ran), at which point it stops abruptly, revealing a trend that applies to lane 2 itself rather than just the two boats racing in it.

In the afternoon seeding matters less, since for example in the blue semis, all teams had placed 1st in their heats. So we expect a more even distribution of placements. Here are the 1st placements by lane for races 12-22 (no published lane assignments for the junior race #23):

lane 1: 5
lane 2: 0
lane 3: 4
lane 4: 2 (was present in 8/11 afternoon races)

Lane 2, for both the odd and even races, was skunked in the afternoon. To reinforce this, here are the 4th placements for the eight semis/finals races that used a fourth lane:

lane 2 odd: 3
lane 2 even: 4
lane 3 even: 1

Of the eight four-lane races, lane 2 placed 4th seven times!

The three remaining semis/finals used only three lanes. And lane 2 placed 3rd twice in those races. In sum for the races after noon, lane 2 placed dead last in nine of the 11 semis and finals!

So if a dirty lane 2 even boat was the dog in the morning, lane 2 in general was doomed in the afternoon. I have not paddled at Richmond to say how the current changes over the course of the day, but these results suggest that as conditions become faster, they disproportionately benefit the outside lanes. Who wants lane 2 next year?

Results: http://gorowandpaddle.org/database/img_44c6724db63f0.pdf
Lane grid: http://gorowandpaddle.org/database/img_44bd6190ec7bb.pdf

Excellent work AVAST, absolutely excellent. Thanks for doing it.

AVAST! Thanks for the number crunching.  This really does reinforce the point.

In the morning races, lane 2 did alternate between BLACK and WHITE.  In the afternoon I thought they only used WHITE 2 (please correct me if I am mistaken.)  I do not have photos for the afternoon.  In Blue Final A, we used the WHITE 2, and in the junior race, which immediately followed Blue Final A, WHITE 2 was also used as well.

While I appreciate  AVAST"S intelligent breakdown of what could have occurred during the Richmond festival...(and concern for clean boats)....let it go...it is all a part of racing.