Dragon Boat West

Here's some info for those teams that do not have paddlers with memberships to FCRCC. The FCRCC Spring Regatta will be taking place at Dragon Zone, south side of Science World (or the Telus World of Science or whatever it's called now) on Saturday May 13, 2006 from 8 am to 3pm

Registration before April 21 is as follows...Mixed $200, Seniors/Juniors $150. After April 21 it will be... Mixed $300, Seniors/Juniors $200

Deadline for registration: May 5 or capacity (32 teams max.), whichever comes first. Apparently registration for FCRCC teams started on March 20th and registration for all other teams was on April 1st.  They say spaces fill up quickly and for you to get your registrations in early.

For more info you can visit their website at www.fcrcc.com or just post your question here. You can also contact the Race Director Pat Pawlett at [email protected].

31 teams registered.  Only 1 spot left.

Saturday May 13, 2006 from 8 am to 3 pm
Location: Dragon Zone, south side of Science World (Creekside Park)

Registration:
After April 21: Mixed $300, Seniors/Juniors $200

Details at www.fcrcc.com

2006 FCRCC Spring Regatta Tentative Race Grid (http://members.shaw.ca/dragonboatwest/grid/2006/FCRCCRegatta2006RaceGrid.pdf) in PDF format.

Now that we know who is racing, anyone have any predictions?  Will the Subaru dog make a comeback (or is that DWW dog now)?  Interesting Pac Reach and other comp teams are skipping this, wonder why?  Is Dragonhearts becoming another Synergy, 4 teams entered in this event?

For me, the order will be:

1. FCRCC Mixed (fastest time in White Rock)
2. Roli (gearing for club crew so who knows)
3. DWW #1 (as long as the dog stays away)
4. Swordfish or Dragonhearts Team Ulitmate (haven't seen either this year but Dragonhearts had the 3rd fastest time in the shortened White Rock event from what I heard, Swordfish has been in OCs so that should help)

All guesses cause I haven't seen any of the teams yet but have heard stories ;-)

dragonhearts has different "levels". not sure if that puts them in with synergy or not though.  :lol: 
going to be a tough call through the semis and finals...  it looks as though anyone placing 2nd in their first heat wont' have a shot at the Div A finals or consolation though?

Time to venture out of my garbage can again.  Assuming the regatta does not get cancelled due to poor water conditions, here are my predictions.

1) FCRCC Mixed
2) DWW #1
3) Ultimate
4) Roli Masters

I keep hearing that Ultimate is very strong, so they'll be my pick to take 3rd ahead of Roli.  Any idea what boats will be used?  6-16's?  BUK?  Modified Geminis?

 

There's a key outrigger race in Penticton that conflicts with this year's FCRCC regatta. I wonder if FCRCC's big guns are going to be out of town this weekend...

'Who knows? FODB may upset FCRCC in the first ..." mmm don't think so Sinkingboat.  Unless none of the A or B boat guys show up I'm thinking it's a long shot anyone one will beat FCRCC.  In fact I predict FCRCC to win every festival they enter this year.  Ms Kamini is gearing up for TO and she's got some amazing paddlers on her roster.  And no, these aren't your everyday dragonboaters. As for the rest of the placings my pics are:

1.  FCRCC
2.  Roli
3.  DWW (glad they brought that name back!)
4.  Who knows, can't wait to see who's been training

i think JDA is going to pull and upset and come 2nd.  ;) :lol:   

wouldn't that be a story.. i'm feeling religious all of a sudden

Ultimate is on the pace this year so I expect to see them do very well

I watched most of the finals, nice that it was running ahead, too ahead since I missed the team I was suppose to watch.  They did not seem to want to slow down the races any.  Interesting choice to switch the Geminis and 6/16s for the championship races.  I talked with some DZ paddlers and they were not sure why that decision was done (something about the 6/16s used were not all created equal).  With that said, the order of finish was:

Div A Championship - first 2 boats were clearly ahead
FCRCC Mixed
DWW #1
Roli Masters
Dragonhearts Team Ultimate

Div A Consolation - very good race, boats were close for the most part all the way down the course.
Swordfish
Eye of the Dragon
Phat Phish
Concord Pacific

BEAUTIFUL day for racing...  even from the sidelines, i enjoyed today. :)

Pics coming later tonight
too busy with the crazy a$$ pace of the marshalling (curse you Kerry! but good job) to get on the coach boat for many shots but got a few

Great LW love to see them.

I looked at the predictions and it looks like sinkingboat SANK, Garbage Miles must have been putting some miles on the creek as they picked the top 4, Tiger had the top 4 down jus could not nail the placing, and Colossus crashed and burned with his JDA prediction. 

The ADBF Regatta is next for these teams, right?  I'll have to make a special trip for that :-).

Great racing everyone.

A DragonBoat Fan

Division A Championship - 6-16
1:56.58 FCRCC Mixed
1:58.01 DWW #1
2:02.07 ROLI
2:04.63 Team Ultimate

Division A - Consolation - GEMINI
2:12.50 Swordfish
2:13.26 Eye of the Dragon
2:14.77 Phat Phish
2:15.02 Concord Pacific

Division B - Championship - 6-16
2:07.74 Fresh Off the Dragon Boat
2:13.13 Alpha Dragons
2:13.49 DWW#2
2:13.66 Scotia Dragons

Division B - Consolation - GEMINI
2:14.56 Just Dragon Along
2:15.50 TD Lightning
2:18.48 Eric Hamber Eternal Dragons
2:19.59 Grandragons

Division C - Championship - 6-16
2:14.77 Ready JET Go
2:15.31 VO2MAX
2:25.15 Team X-Calibre
2:27.96 Starbucks Waverunners

Division C - Consolation - GEMINI
2:23.64 Dragon Hearts Team Magnum
2:32.27 Dogwood Nothing Dragons
2:38.08 Dragon Hearts Team Rush
2:56.64 Dogwood Nothing Dragon Challengers

Division D - Championship - 6-16
2:22.56 Finding BMO
2:30.26 Kitsilano Water Demons
2:37.13 Dragon Hearts Team CCPC
2:38.05 Saggin Dragons

Division D Consolation - GEMINI
2:46.59 Grandragons Too
2:48.24 Abreast on the Creek
2:54.06 Eh Team

Thanks LW for the pics, always awesome.

"Suspiciously absent were PAC Reach and ACME. Too bad the format eliminated a lot of the other teams from showing their Mojo (FODB, Scotia, JDS) but the Alcan regatta will provide some answers I'm sure." 

Not sure I agree with your comment about Scotia and JDA, they were in heats that were wide open based on what I could see, in fact based on looking at the whole thing, JDA was ranked #1 in their heat (Lane 3 was consistently the winner of the first race), they were the ones that lost.  Scotia was against Ultimate so if they are as good as last year should have been close (they were Comp B last year and Ultimate was Comp C), no?  Now the only really hard one was FODB, racing against FCRCC was a bad break but their times still did not match any of the top 4 times so they were maybe one race off where they should have been.

Alcan is just around the corner, who will step it up a notch to get into Comp division?  The biggest surprise was that FCRCC did not blow anyone out of the water, they have trained hard so to win by as little as they did does not bode well for what they are aiming for.

We shall soon see :-)

it is well known that ultimate has "up-ed the anti" this year in a push for higher ranking, so i'm not surprised at their placing in the finals.  As for FODB, they were 3 seconds behind ultimate, who were 8 seconds behind FCRCC, which, had there been one or two more boats/heat and had they NOT been against FCRCC in the first heat, I could easily see them racing alongside the rest up in Comp A finals again.  I think that the Alcan regatta Comp A finals is going to be a free-for-all among non FCRCC/Pac Reach-esque teams.

I too am interested in seeing how False Creek Mixed does in the Alcan regatta/Alcan festival.  They've set some high standards for everyone in the past, and now there are new teams forming and training to compete against them.  But they (as well as Roli and others going to the club crews) have also got goals beyond Alcan, so timing of "peaking" (everyone talks about when they want their performance to "peak"....  not the way i'm used to training, but oh well) might not be strictly for alcan. 

i'm my own spy network....  :?  thats what happens when you'd rather spend an hour or two paddling than sit around at home watching slapstick sitcoms or soap operas

back to the topic at hand (PHOTOS :D ), i'll post some soon.  i wasn't able to move around too much on sunday, so i didn't get too many photos taken of the races.

Not a rumour from what I hear, go paddle the 4 boats that were in the final and you will know where the rumour comes from.  I heard it may have been way closer if the Geminis had been used?  Others can comment on that as I was not there.  Clearly not all boats float the same  :lol:, we can just hope they don't use some of these boats in Alcan as teams will get shafted big time :shock:.  Based on what I hear from my sources they will be used.

Looking at FODB, they were still close to a boat length behind the top 4 teams (3 seconds slower than Ultimate is close to a boat length).  We can't tell between the next 4 (different boats used) but FODB would have given 5th thru 8th a good run for their money, I would think.  They are always late bloomers (improve the last 3-4 weeks before Alcan) so I would put them in Comp B/C this year, rebuilding year for them.  Of course their Comp A time (from last year) would have put them in the middle of Comp B anyways so maybe they are the same this year, must have got a lucky draw last year at Alcan.  You win some you lose some, I think I would rather get a lucky draw in Alcan than in FCRCC Regatta.

Let the Alcan predictions start.

 I was on the one of the boats in the final and it was in such poor condition it probably should not have been used .Some of the seats had collapsed and some of the foot braces were missing all together . The other teams had the newest 6-16's and they were in much better condition  Teams did the best they could given what they had to work with

 

No one should be dissappointed with FCRCC Mixed's performance.  A 1.56/6-16/500m set is about as fast as you can go.  (I think I've seen the 52 range in extremely favourable conditions) 

Also keep in mind you need serious firepower to break the 2.00.00/6-16 barrier.  I could never crack 2.00.04 with the immigrants myself.  Ultimate and Roli are in good shape to be posting in the 2.00 to 2.05 range!

For DWW to push past that is awesome.  It certainly shows their 3/prac week plus small boat work has been put to good use.
So it's not that FCRCC didn't dominate (which they did), it's DWW doing what you're supposed to on the water.

Also, you can't put TOO much stock into times (I know, it's all we have to really go on here).  Not just about changing conditions, but also realize a boat's performance can also tied to it's competition.  With Rec-minded crews especially, 'Alone and in front' you can never dig quite as deep as 'Surrounded and challenged' by other tough teams.

And lastly, yes, the 6-16's won't provide the consistency of the plasticized Gems (tho they can still take on water).  But they are all good enough.  Burying one's self in 'this 16' is faster than 'that 16' is looking for excuses.  A crew would have to be paddling at 100% optimum performance for them to justify saying 'this boat cost us a second'.  Maybe teams like FCRCC mixed, Success etc are entitled to say that, but no one else is.  And i don't think you'd ever hear them saying it either.

no one is making excuses ...just stating facts about the general condition of the 6-16 boats used .

 On one hand you have a 1 yr old 6-16's (in the middle lanes) and on the other you have a 6-16's (outside lanes)that have been out there for years and are in need of repairs or restoration . 1 boat needs nothing and the other boat is missing footbraces and seats are collapsed so how are you to drive w/ your legs or rotate on your butt to get reach when the seats are broken and have sunk inside ...think about it .No one is making an excuse because they did the best they could given the equipment they had to use .(Think of the barney boat ...ever remember racing in it) We have used a GPS with the same crew in different 6-16's back to back and the time difference has been big .Try taking your garmin 201/301 out sometime and take readings ....find out for yourself ...you will be amazed

 My suggestion is to have these repairs done before Alcan if they are going to be used to make for a level playing field

 1 other thing I noticed w/ the retro fitted gemini's is the placing of the side support rails .I think it would have been a better idea to have gone under the seat rather than ontop .Its just a matter of a few inches and would have made a big difference for a paddler .The gemini's are a big improvement over what they were  but a little more thought would have made a big difference from the paddlers perspective

I have to completely agree on the condition of certain 6-16s...  there are at least 2 that have the centre couple of rows (maybe others, but i tend to sit in the middle so those are the rows i have noticed) where the seats have colapsed and "shrunken" away from the gunnel.  any movement pinches the butt, catches the fabric of shorts in the space, and the bucketed seat cuts of circulation and puts a large amount of strain on muscles and chafes like crazy (monkey butt in less than 10 easy strokes).  I agree that these boats should be repaired by Alcan if they are to be used for the races.

You make some good points. However also take into account:
1.) same boat, back to back tests, lots of rest, same race pointer - you will rarely ever achieve the same time either. 
2.) it's pretty tough to run one race after another with 100% consistency as you mentioned.  Pretty close, sure.
3.) Running back-to-back tests just to accurately gauge the fast/slow boats, well sorry but that's sending entirely the wrong (dangerous imo) message to the team.

I know the boats pretty well seeing as how I have a Garmin surgically grafted to my wrist and from being around them for so damn long.  And I've never said, "let's get that boat b/c it's faster", or "don't worry, we lost that race because that boat's slow" to my crews.  Ever.  Talk about Priority Zero.  Boats are clean?  Good enough.  Just give me a hard race to compete in, that's all I really care about. 



I suppose it's just my personal preferance, I prefer my guys to focus on themselves and each other rather than whatever 'ferrari' or 'crate' they have to sit in.  But that should be common sense to any team should it not?




Why is any of this even important? (and why i'm bothering to write about it)
Let's say you run a race.  It was pretty good.  Or bad.  But whatever, you always want to improve. 
Well how useful is it to say, "don't worry guys, it was the boat.  If we had the Lo Boat we would've been there"?
Paint it whatever colour you like, but that's what it boils down to in the end.

Even a well-trained discplined team like FCRCC or Success post-race (I'm guessing here) will probably say, "let's try to improve "x" a little, I believe it'll be an improvement."  These guys like look for tenths, maybe a second, but not big chunks of time.  I just don't think they hang themselves up on the boats.

 Â 

 At this level yes teams know which boats are fast and which are not ...trust me ,elite teams pay very very close attn to the boats themselves .They check the undersides and the condition of the boats ,  how they sit in the water compared to others ,look for water in the bulkheads as every little bit matters .

 It may not matter at a rec/  lower comp level but at the top they watch everything .In the past teams have purposely ,the nite before, gone and checked the boats ...they have lifted the boats out of the water to scrape the hulls just prior to heading out ...there are lots of things we don't see  :wink:

 

LOL.

Taking care of things you can control?  Sure.  That's the mark of any good team out there, rec or Comp.
Worry, complain, or make excuses about the things you can't?  I'm sorry, and you're 'elite'?  (I know you're highly opinionated and a bit hot-headed, kinda like me actually)

There's a good handful of people out there I hold much respect for.  People like the coaches of Success, Fcrcc, Roli, Lauren, Andrea, Wayne etc....  People like those I bow to and wish to learn anything and everything I can from.  Please, please forgive me if you are any one of those individuals.

Anyways, I will respect your opinions and leave it at that.

 Was not looking for any respect ( afterall I'm just a paddler ).. just making a few points

 

I guess FCRCC Mixed, final race last year in Kelowna, was an inexperienced team then  :shock: due to their complaints etc... all based on your above logic ;-)...BTW they got a crappy boat for sure.

You can only do so much and in the end if a festival or regatta uses very different quality boats, and there are a wide range of 6/16s out there, then the teams have a right to complain, who is paying for the privilege to race?  If a festival/regatta continues to ignore complaints then teams should move on because they are not getting the service that a festival/regatta should provide them, as close to consistent race course and boats as possible and a "fun" and friendly environment.  The organizers cannot control the weather etc so no one should ever complain about that, unless you have an inside track to higher being who has some pull.

My 10 cents worth...

Tig

Please don't mis-represent what I say, read a bit more thoroughly.

By the same token, that kinda takes away from the winning team who did an excellant job.  You're not trying to say, "they only won b/c the other team got the crappy boat" are you?

Hey Lethal Weapon,

If you were only a few years younger, you could keep up with me..... :lol:

I think you should stop spending your money on bigger lenses, but a camera that can take faster shots. OR get a boat, that moves faster...

See you at the next regatta....get ready.....

Of course not, the winning team won fair and square, all I am saying is that FCRCC complained about that race so they must be inexperienced based on your logic that only inexperienced teams complain.  In reality, FCRCC Mixed and the winning team had a terrifc race, FCRCC to finish where they did and Success to win against FCRCC, which is what a true competitive team does, they just paddle.  In the end every team complains, depends how loudly they do that, I am sure your team/you complained about who you raced on the weekend and perhaps last year after Alcan and the year before, just not too loudly ;-). 

Of course if you read my reply MORE THROUGHLY you would see that I am advocating that the organizers should ensure the boats are as close as possible for championship races (every race would be nirvani but we have to walk before we run) which means at this point on False Creek, 6/16s should NOT be used for championship races, too variable. 

Now if some want to disagree fine, all I want are fair racing conditions (conditions means those under organizer's control) but that is what every racer/team wants, yes/no?  Who wants to win because they got a boat that is faster, etc than another team, it is a pretty hollow medal/trophy in my books (in fact I'll give you my medal if that happens to me, I promise you that)

Rossifumi, Tiger, Colossus, Paddleboy and anyone else...

You guys all have good points. I am especially impressed with Rossifumi because you are only in your mid to late 20's right? And yet you sound like an aged veteran of many more years than that. Good points and well said my friend!

However the best way to resolve the issue of fairness and "equipment" is to truly have boats of similar models and age. So Tiger good points from you too!

But all other things such as weather, tides, winds, or what have you are out of your control so just paddle and paddle til you puke! If you did the best you did then you should be proud regardless of outcome. Just my opinion of course as I have never coached an upper level team. But I do tell my teams that I have expectations as to where they should end up based on their practices etc. Only thing that I think is in your control is determining which lane you will be in if you finish in a certain spot. ie: 2nd in race #3 will be in lane 4 or something like that. But then that creates strategy just for lane placements because some of us believe certain lanes in False Creek are better than others. (I know my buddy BH will give me crap for this 'cuz he swears there are advantages but I don't actually see them! LOL)

so now we're all to be on the look out to recruit a paddler who has LOADS of extra money he/she doesn't know what to do with, so he/she can use that extra money to buy us all an entirely new fleet of boats (BUKs please :) ) so that those can't be blamed.  And then while we're at it, a never-ending supply of club paddles for those without paddles so they won't have to worry about using a damaged or water-logged paddle during a race.  :D 8)

That camera is fast enough to freeze your flapping gums its fast enough for anything!
No worries, it will be there in the beer tent if any of your skin starts to get exposed again
i actually have some very nice pictures from Victoria........

So while your at it why don't we get $19MM so we can build a facility just like Toronto's to take the tide and the wind out of it too... while your at it I would like cookie cutter steers people and drummers weighing less that 100 lbs each. 

Lets be realistic about this... there are always advantages and disadvantages on every boat... we don't all have $200 Carbon blades we don't all get the uniform boats... the stronger teams over come those issues that is part of what makes them strong. 

I think the real issue is not the run of the boats providing an advantage or disadvantage rather ability of the teams to overcome the disrepair of a missing foot peg or a cupped seats (hard to get leg drive when your cheek is sliding into a trough).

The point is that all these teams are strong enough to pull off a win on any given day regardless of equipment... Saturday happened to be FCRCC's day.

Equipment as an excuse... I don't think so.  If you where on the boat and it felt bad then fine you can complain but think before you speak was it really the boat or was it the passengers???

i think thats a GREAT idea!  :Cheers: msn(u)