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Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 08:05:21 AM Quote from: woodsman did people have fun? yup! :D Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: DBWTim on September 19, 2005, 09:14:31 AM Good racing everyone.
Offical results will be coming as soon as the Kelowna festival website has it up (I must say that I find it pretty funny that the banner graphic for the Kelowna Festival is an aerial photo of the Vancouver festival from several years ago.) (http://www.kelownadragonboatfestival.com/images/header.gif) But here's the unofficial Platinum A Final Results... 1st - Team Success 2nd - Pacific Reach 3rd - FCRCC Mixed 4th - Specialty Subaru Legacy 5th - Alpha Dragons Red 6th - Absolute Adrenaline If someone could post some more unofficial results that would be great. It was a good festival to closing out the season with some surprises in the results. Saturday morning was the closest thing to a nightmare. With the glare coming off the water in the morning and some not-so-flat water, some steerspeople had some problems staying in their lanes. I heard that there was something like three steerspeople that were pulled off the boats since they were not comfortable steering for the weekend. The racing was pretty good even with the usual odd aspects of the Kelowna race course. Lots of wet bodies by the last race on Sunday. There were even some naked and pantless bodies... The boats were all 6-16s this year so teams didn't need to re-adjust to different boats. I do have to question the age and conditions of the boats though. My biggest complaint would be the race announcer who couldn't get the team names right most of the time. All in all.. great last race of the season. Congrats to all teams involved. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 09:34:36 AM part of the Diamond A final results:
1. Just Dragon Fresh Along 2. Synergy J-Speed 3. Eye of the Dragon (i think?) 4. Roli (i think?) all in all, a great weekend of racing and partying. my only complaint was... well, i wasn't affected during the festival, but the condition of at least two of the boats to my knowledge. the green boat used for the odd # races in lane 4 on sunday as well as the army boat have HORRID seats in the middle (seats 4-6). they are cupped and seperate from the side of the boat. more than a few times during practices in the army boat, i've snagged and ripped chunks of my thigh and shorts on the broken seats, and the cupped seats are awful to paddle on. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: coach on September 19, 2005, 11:06:27 AM Quote from: Colossus 3. Eye of the Dragon (i think?) 4. Roli (i think?) Eye of the Dragon was 3rd. Subaru Outback was 4th. Roli was in the Diamond B final. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 11:13:53 AM Quote from: coach Quote from: Colossus 3. Eye of the Dragon (i think?) 4. Roli (i think?) Eye of the Dragon was 3rd. Subaru Outback was 4th. Roli was in the Diamond B final. oops. yeah, thats right. i can't remember who else was in the A-final. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Heather on September 19, 2005, 11:16:39 AM I was paddling with the Navy team for this weekend (I guess I am now officially a paddle slut!), but some of us left too quickly to catch the ferry, so I don't know what the outcome was for Platinum B final. Any clues?
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: turtle_turtle on September 19, 2005, 11:44:51 AM Congrats to ALL teams that competed this weekend. Some teams just blew me away! Especially Eye of The Dragon, placing 3rd in Diamond A, with 50% blind paddlers. :clap:
aaaaand... Quote from: turtle_turtle I'm going to make a prediction! Team SUCCESS is gonna beat out FCRCC Mixed! I was right!! Congrats SUCCESS! Damn... I shoulda bet money on this one. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: kid on September 19, 2005, 11:48:38 AM Who is VIPIDI?
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Heather on September 19, 2005, 12:02:52 PM VIPIDI is a combination of Dragonauts, The New PI (formerly Precision Impossible) and the GRPC United Team.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 12:26:23 PM Quote from: turtle_turtle Congrats to ALL teams that competed this weekend. Some teams just blew me away! Especially Eye of The Dragon, placing 3rd in Diamond A, with 50% blind paddlers. :clap: i coiuldn't agree more! they were simply amazing. they kept right up with JDFA for most of the race, but then J-speed and JDFA were able to surge ahead at the end (very close race) Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Senna on September 19, 2005, 12:44:11 PM Quote from: turtle_turtle Congrats to ALL teams that competed this weekend. Some teams just blew me away! Especially Eye of The Dragon, placing 3rd in Diamond A, with 50% blind paddlers. :clap: Congrats to Eye of the Dragon, I've always been impressed by their timing and power. Senna Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Swordfish on September 19, 2005, 01:30:19 PM Team Success' finish was amazing! It looked like they were hanging around 4th at the 3/4 mark but they really turned it at the end. Here's Success at the finish.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b81/swordfishpix/2005/Kelowna/DSC00759.jpg) Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Why Me on September 19, 2005, 01:49:35 PM I heard Success won by riding False Creeks wash which shot them ahead near the finish, smart move appears it paid off .Success had been behind False creek & PR by at least 3 seconds and PR beat Success in the semi but in racing anything can happen as they say and it did .
The question that came up during a protest was ...did Success finish in the correct lane ? Title: Protest question answered Post by: tiger on September 19, 2005, 02:02:51 PM Quote from: Why Me The question that came up during a protest was ...did Success finish in the correct lane ? Swordfish's picture proves that they did finish in their lane. See 2 buoys on the left of Success which means they were lane 2. First buoy is the outside of the course, next one delineates where lane 1 and 2 are and you don't see a third buoy which means they were in lane 2. No question there. Title: Congrats to Success Post by: Keen Man on September 19, 2005, 02:23:43 PM So glad this "upset victory" came out of lane 2 and not lane 6.
I couldn't have handled reading about the so called "express lane" anymore. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: paddleBOT on September 19, 2005, 02:25:02 PM Unofficial results:
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Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: DBWTim on September 19, 2005, 02:32:39 PM There's some discussion out East in regards to Tempest at Kelowna as well as the final race.
Quote from: observer on Dragon Boat Forum Tempest did well on the first day and was behind False Creek & Pacific Reach by about 2-3 seconds each race . In the semi they went up against False Creek and actually had them on the start .It looked like they may have been nervous going against FC paniced and unloaded everything on the start only to die mid point and False creek passed them & beat them by 5 or 6 seconds . This bumped Teampest into the A consulation which was too bad because really they should have been in the A final as they had a great final race laying down a great time . In the A final it was the big 3 FCRCC,Pacific Reach & Team Success .It was close all the way until the end when success ,riding False Creeks wash shot out front and won . It was Success ,Pacific Reach ,then False Creek .False Creek protested and said Success crossed lanes and it appeared False creek was way over towards Reach and may have crossed into Reach's lane midpoint but got back into theirs and Success was squeezing False Creek on the outside and forced them towards the Pacific Reach lane it looked like . The wash riding By Success paid off huge as they shot way out front just at the finish .It looked like someone hit the nitrous by how fast the boat jumped on the powerful FCRCC team .There is no way Success has the power to take out False Creek but w/ the wash riding they found a way .........thats racing For the full thread you can go here (http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=135730&messageid=1126876361&lp=1127164780). Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 19, 2005, 03:26:04 PM Quote The wash riding By Success paid off huge as they shot way out front just at the finish .It looked like someone hit the nitrous by how fast the boat jumped on the powerful FCRCC team .There is no way Success has the power to take out False Creek but w/ the wash riding they found a way .........thats racing I've once witnessed Success's awesome finish in another event. It was beautifully violent to watch (Drummer was being thrown around in her seat, boat was launching with each stroke). And it had F***all to do with riding wash. Sounds like sour grapes to me. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Secret Weapon on September 19, 2005, 04:10:44 PM F***???? Mr. Rossifumi is there really a need for that language? Really now there are children present here.
Now back to the topic at hand. Unfortunately this year the lanes were tight and the poor soles that got sandwiched into lane three my hats off to your steersmen(and women). Kudos to the organizers to get rid of lane seven. But due to tight lanes there was a lot of wash riding. Intentionally?... Not always, once again tight lanes. Did Success ride FCRCC's wash? Don't know, but I do find it hard to believe that they trailed behind FCRCC and Pac Reach by 2-3 seconds in every other race including their semi against PR and then beat both of these teams and gain almost 6 seconds on these two teams. Yes it could all be legit, but how does that Beach Boys song go??? "Catch a wave and you'll be sitting on top of the... podium???" :dance: . None the less good job on all Platinum A winners. Now on to the Tempest ordeal. Should they have been in the 'A' Final. You bet, and it's too bad they had a bad semi, but sorry Tempest we've all been there and had our share of bad races. Whether is was officiating, another boat or things just didn't gel. Hope they come out West again and bring some other Easties with them. On a final note, kudos to the organizers, volunteers and Mother Nature. Till next time my friends :Cheers: !!! Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Luke on September 19, 2005, 04:30:30 PM heh, who woulda guessed, j-speed and dregoon did kick some serious butt, and it was the dogs and PR who had the serious water fight, oooh...the horrible bailers... :naughty:
congrats to all teams who had fun, and won precious kodak moments Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 19, 2005, 04:41:46 PM Quote from: Secret Weapon F***???? Mr. Rossifumi is there really a need for that language? Really now there are children present here. yeah i know it's a bit harsh hehe. actually what's on my mind is while that Eastern forum has improved lately, there's always been a fixation on wash riding. It can get pretty nasty. They just can't seem to come to grips with the issue and go around throwing teams under the bus with it. Y'know if FCRCC Mixed protested (their right to), then just trust in the Race Director's judgement. Since there was no DQ, well it's a dead-end issue. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Secret Weapon on September 19, 2005, 05:31:47 PM Just to clarify my previous post... Some teams did get involved in "wash riding" unintentionally because of tight lanes. This did help some on to win and some not. In Success's case I'm not going to say 'yes' or 'no'. But I will say that if you put those top boats up against each other today in properly placed lanes I will bet you one milllliiioonnn dollars that you'd get a much different outcome than the one in Kelowna, with either FCRCC or Pac Reach at the top. And also I don't call teams cheaters when it comes to wash riding because sometimes it can't be helped and only one person can put the boat in that position, not the entire team. So there! :x
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 07:06:29 PM Quote from: Secret Weapon F***???? Mr. Rossifumi is there really a need for that language? Really now there are children present here. :? have you spent much time around youth these days? not saying that it makes it right, but i hear it all the time, both in the area that i live in (my little brother's friends etc), and the highschool that i volunteer in. even though lane 7 was eliminated, there were still some lanes that "bred" wins. lane 6 seemed to be quite quick, lane 3 was quite slow, lane 4 was quick for a lot of teams (including the team i was on). those are the ones that caught my attention at least. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: ConfusedAsian on September 19, 2005, 07:13:47 PM One thing that I really really love about Kelowna is the clean fresh water.....So happy about that
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: paddleBOT on September 19, 2005, 07:29:02 PM Complete race results online:
http://www.kelownadragonboatfestival.com/results/2005/2005%20Kelowna%20COMPLETE%20Race%20Results.pdf Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: turtle_turtle on September 19, 2005, 07:51:52 PM Looks like all the teams had slower times on the 2nd day. Seeing as SUCCESS had times like 2:04:xx on Saturday, and their winning time was 2:08:xx on Sunday.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: coach on September 19, 2005, 08:17:23 PM Who was steering for SUCCESS? And who was coaching?
I'm just wondering if they're capable of wash-riding. It's difficult to do IMHO. Especially to win by doing it. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: turtle_turtle on September 19, 2005, 08:43:26 PM If SUCCESS actually crossed into another lane, then wouldn't the race officials on the officiating boats during the race have witnessed that?
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Why Me on September 19, 2005, 08:57:59 PM I heard from someone there that the official was a success team member .... go figure .Not implying anything..... just telling you what I heard
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Lethal Weapon on September 19, 2005, 09:03:07 PM Great racing albeit not the most ideal racing water conditions but very challenging for the steers and paddlers alike! Great weather all weekend and lotsa laughs at the inaugural Miss Dragonboat festival (I can never looks at these guys the same again.....)
On the course sometimes it felt like a bumper car and demolition derby but despite a few protests the races seem to go well. Good point Chaos on the the "different boats" and their affect on some teams placings (see the silver divsion teams? Craziness!) Maybe next year they can keep them all together in the same pool or bring up Geminis....LOL I'll be posting a whack of pictures up later tomorrow all day so refresh a few times to see them all. Oh well. off to the OCs for a couple of months........try to balance out that back.. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 09:05:45 PM Quote from: Why Me I heard from someone there that the official was a success team member .... go figure .Not implying anything..... just telling you what I heard there were a lot of officials...... some paddling, some not Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Angus on September 19, 2005, 09:08:20 PM Quote from: turtle_turtle If SUCCESS actually crossed into another lane, then wouldn't the race officials on the officiating boats during the race have witnessed that? Yes, the race officials were keeping a close eye on boats that finish in the wrong lane. My team did not finish in its assigned lane and the race officials assesed a time penalty on us. We didn't really care because we had just pulled our best race of the year. Guys, please lay off on Success. They gave it all they had on that final race when they spontaneously dedicated the race (halfway through the race) to a teammate who had passed away earlier this year. How did they do it? Someone started shouting the name of their fallen comrade with each stroke, and eventually their entire team joined in. Sometimes, when people get the right emotional stimulus, they pull off feats that are normally beyond their capabilities. How do I know this? I asked. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Guido on September 19, 2005, 09:37:54 PM Quote from: Angus Quote from: turtle_turtle If SUCCESS actually crossed into another lane, then wouldn't the race officials on the officiating boats during the race have witnessed that? Yes, the race officials were keeping a close eye on boats that finish in the wrong lane. My team did not finish in its assigned lane and the race officials assesed a time penalty on us. We didn't really care because we had just pulled our best race of the year. Guys, please lay off on Success. They gave it all they had on that final race when they spontaneously dedicated the race (halfway through the race) to a teammate who had passed away earlier this year. How did they do it? Someone started shouting the name of their fallen comrade with each stroke, and eventually their entire team joined in. Sometimes, when people get the right emotional stimulus, they pull off feats that are normally beyond their capabilities. How do I know this? I asked. Don't worry Angus...everyone HATES a winner and don't know when they see skilled paddlers. Success won because of...... a) determination b) the experience of paddlers that were on that crew c) the skills of those paddlers d) the desire to win e) the ability to know how to win 5 of those paddlers combined had more than 65 years of experience. 3 of them had won in Vancouver more than once. If you were in that final race....there was no way anyone was riding wash.....if anything....all 6 boats were battling a wake that went across the race course from almost the start to mid way. The conditions on the water were rougher than they were on Saturday. The bow wake coming off the water on some of the boats was the highest I had seen it all weekend. Our strokes were battleing the wake for more than half the course. We on the left were able to catch water most of the time if we weren't smacking our paddles into a wake that was coming at us at about 2 feet high....the people on the right however were paddling through air half the time. So....unless you were looking at the course dead on or from behind....you can not make comments or accusations as such. Paddlers in an opposing boat can't tell if the other team next to them were wake/wash riding....unless of course they were looking at that boat. How can the steersperson tell if he/she must look forward to steer straight? How can a drummer tell if they have to watch the steersperson or the stroke rate to determine what to call during the race? Face it....if they were....they certainly weren't focused in their boat now were they? And....thus....because they lost....they had to come up with some excuse didn't they? Come on...use some common sense. Two of the greatest skills anyone can attain is to learn to LOSE with dignity...and learn to credit those that worked hard to achieve SUCCESS. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: turtle_turtle on September 19, 2005, 09:48:21 PM Well said, Guido.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 19, 2005, 09:55:17 PM race what you brung, and stop b*tching about the results. every race, every heat is different from the one before and after it. it is highly likely that putting the same teams against each other for a race in the morning, again at noon, and again in the afternoon, that the results would be different each time. "bench/paper racing" is fun and all, but upsets happen. don't like a result? use it as motivation to train harder for next time.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: meowzers on September 19, 2005, 10:55:57 PM Many people, when they lose, blame the winners
Title: Victoria Teams Post by: kid on September 20, 2005, 09:27:37 AM Victoria teams did really well this weekend! 5 of them making the top division. I believe only 7-8 teams from Victoria attended the festival. Just shows that there are a lot of good teams in Victoria. GD's and Dragonauts were not there. If they were there would be in the top division for sure.
Way to put it Colossus! Every race is different. Success won becuase it was there day. Tempest should have been in the final but unfortunetly they had a bad race in the semis. Crap happens and thats the way life goes. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: coach on September 20, 2005, 10:21:49 AM There were some great results and some surprising results. There were some good teams that ended up in Silver and Gold.
In the Silver division were TD Lightning, Drunk n Dragons Blue, and VO2 Max (finished 4th). Normally VO2 is stronger than that. Also Alpha Blue, Uproar, and Ready Jet Go in Silver B. In Gold was Granddragons, Masala, and United. Masala has been very strong lately so they could have been higher. United was really up and down with their races. They have great speed when they race well but they also had some bad races. It just goes to show how much competition there is in the strong rec teams. Drunk n Dragons Green did well to make Jade, which was two divisions higher than Blue (their A team). Eye of the Dragon was great on Sunday to beat Roli and ssSteam Heat in the Diamond semi and to edge out Subaru Outback in the Diamond A final to finish third. Storm had a great first race then seemed to be not as fast after that. Their times were in the middle of the Diamond teams, which is still really good. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: KarenRobertsPDX on September 20, 2005, 11:30:35 AM IMO lane 6 was unquestioning a speedy lane. It was rare when lane 6 finished below 3rd place. It happened but it was rare.
Lane 1 & 2 were extremely slow. The water is much too shallow in Lanes 1 & 2 for anyone from there (with a few exceptions) to get any chance of finishing above 4th place. Of course the officials expect those lanes to be finishing 5th & 6th. But, there should be a chance for a misplaced team to have a great race and finish near the top of a heat. IMO the better way to run the course is from the middle of the lake towards the shore. Then the lanes would be more even. The spectating wouldn't be as good but the lane dispute would be different. Perhaps the lanes could be spread out then, too. Kelowna is a fanstastic venue and I loved the racing there. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: crustyx on September 20, 2005, 11:44:00 AM Had a great time this year. Lane 2 seemed pretty speedy to me
In the Plat A Final SUCCESS won in Lane 2 and Alpha Dragons Red came in 5th in Lane 6. In the Plat B Final VIPIDI placed 2nd In the Diamond A final Synergy J-Speed placed 2nd Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 20, 2005, 12:07:27 PM Regarding fast/slow, unfair lanes, it is my uninformed opinion that no one here really knows what's going on.
I can say that b/c I sure as heck didn't stick my head underwater and look around, did any of you? Judging by some perceptions, you'd think maybe lane 5 or 6 happened to be sitting over the edge of the Marianas Trench. But not L7 of course. Conditions for a 'group' of lanes being inconsistent somewhere along the 500m's? Sure! Nothing's fair. Montrea'ls the most 'fair' I've seen, (closed, fixed) the wake/wave action helped keep teams together to the finish. my team had their best race time being pulled next to the Wongs. (That's right, go team, go team, it's your birthday..) :dance: I think what some may be wishing/demanding for is a piece of pavement to do your racing on. real story: A reporter once asked a racer what problems he ran into when he came in 3rd place (hunting for the usual setup or tire excuses). The racer shot right back, "Whaddya mean? those 2 just rode better'n me, that's it". You know, sometimes.. just sometimes.. maybe another crew outpulled yours. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 20, 2005, 12:34:10 PM Forgive the double post.
Here's what I do know from the Kelowna Conditions. - Conditions got slower as the weekend went on. - Favourable wind and visible 'surface' currents especially on the first day. - there was a bit of chop. That's it. You saw 'fast' water. Well that's expressly b/c of the wind blowing on the surface. It ain't stirring too much below the surface. Last time I checked, the wind didn't function like a stirstick. You should know that (If you watch enough Discovery Channel) currents beneath the surface can also be radically different. And no one here I'm sure can profess to say they know what those were like or how much to what effect they would matter either. More to the point. In the interests of sportsmanship and purpose, it would do well to focus on learning from your races, rather than to continue griping on about unfair officiating, unfair equipment or unfair lanes. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 20, 2005, 12:35:59 PM Quote from: Rossifumi You know, sometimes.. just sometimes.. maybe another crew outpulled yours. :shock: that can actually happen??? :shock: hehe Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: ARMY on September 20, 2005, 12:58:38 PM All in all, a pretty good festival for all involved. A huge thanks to the race organizers, marshalls, referees and everybody else who helped pull it all together. Definitely worth the ferry ride and $$$. We will be back again next year I am sure.
I have to admit that some of the Dragon Boat Queens will give me nightmares that will haunt me forever. Congrats to Team Success, FCRCC, and all the others on a great weekend of racing. Too bad for Tempest having their bad race in the finals, they showed they belonged in Platinum A. But we don't all get the best race at the best point in the weekend. Those of us in Platinum B got a good look at their backs for about 500m or so. :beaten: Talk about getting outpulled!! There are no fast lanes, just fast teams. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Ducky on September 20, 2005, 01:02:17 PM What about lane 3 it was horrible, from what I rember result wise.
Title: no wash riding Post by: Alcan Registrar on September 20, 2005, 03:40:35 PM Quote from: Why Me I heard Success won by riding False Creeks wash which shot them ahead near the finish, smart move appears it paid off .Success had been behind False creek & PR by at least 3 seconds and PR beat Success in the semi but in racing anything can happen as they say and it did . The question that came up during a protest was ...did Success finish in the correct lane ? Sorry, but you heard wrong - seems that happens a lot :) As someone who was in that race, I can assure you (and I've had people from SUCCESS, PAC REACH AND FCRCC MIXED all agree) that FC was NEVER ahead of SUCCESS at any time during that race (do you know the exact angle of the course?). I wouldn't hesitate to say that FC was never ahead of PR either. So say what you want about wash riding, but it didn't happen in that race - unless it was the other way around. And as someone who talked to the race officials afterwards, there was never an official protest lodged about that race and SUCCESS was in the correct lane the entire time. The truth is out there, but some people have more fun stirring the pot. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Lethal Weapon on September 20, 2005, 03:51:35 PM Quote What about lane 3 it was horrible, from what I rember result wise. It wasn't the lane but the low riding boat that was in in it...... Ask Drunks Blue, VO2 Max and TD lightning.....what a PIG! Barney has not left us yet...... Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 20, 2005, 03:55:39 PM What was it specifically about this boat that made it a pig?
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Lethal Weapon on September 20, 2005, 04:02:55 PM I believe they were oldere boats that Vancouver (DZ) sold them and they have been re-Gel -coated and repaired (Duct tape is a nice touch!)
The excess weight seemd to affect the heavier teams as if you watched them go out the lettereing on the Kelowna boat was more below the water than other boats when they were loaded. My novice team I coach sadi that when they were paddling Saturday when it was rough they told me they were riding really low in the water Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Sam on September 20, 2005, 04:13:59 PM Quote As someone who was in that race, I can assure you (and I've had people from SUCCESS, PAC REACH AND FCRCC MIXED all agree) that FC was NEVER ahead of SUCCESS at any time during that race (do you know the exact angle of the course?). I wouldn't hesitate to say that FC was never ahead of PR either. So say what you want about wash riding, but it didn't happen in that race - unless it was the other way around. Not so, as someone who was also in that race, I can assure you that in fact FC was ahead of both teams in that race. They pulled out shortly after the start and maintained this until just before the finish when it appeared that there were a couple of near collisions. Not sure what happened and who was at fault but something definatly happened that changed the course of the race. [/quote] Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: turtle_turtle on September 20, 2005, 04:32:51 PM All this reminds me of the Richmond Festival debate on poor officiating.
Sam, oh Sam, do you have video or picture proof? Not to sound condescending, but we're basing their "unfair win" on what we "heard" or "heard from someone who heard from someone..." If the officials didn't see it, and if YOU didn't see it, from the appropriate angle of course, you really can't say anything about SUCCESS cheating their way to win. You've got no legit proof. This thread is about post race of kelowna, and we're centering it on SUCCESS... it's good to get it out in the open, but the idea that SUCCESS has won by unfair means should be dead now. They've had their fair share of our time. Let it rest. And encourage something else about the post-race, people. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 20, 2005, 04:43:39 PM i think the only way to really tell whats really going on in each race, is to have a video camera attatched to a helicopter flying above, and a video recording from the back. for the fun of it, why not have someone recording from the finish line as well.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Steamrollers Moaner on September 20, 2005, 04:49:17 PM Quote from: Colossus i think the only way to really tell whats really going on in each race, is to have a video camera attatched to a helicopter flying above, and a video recording from the back. for the fun of it, why not have someone recording from the finish line as well. Right... people will somehow find a way to complain about how the wind from the helicopter's propellers will somehow assist certain lanes more than others. :wink: Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 20, 2005, 05:04:53 PM Quote from: Steamrollers Moaner Quote from: Colossus i think the only way to really tell whats really going on in each race, is to have a video camera attatched to a helicopter flying above, and a video recording from the back. for the fun of it, why not have someone recording from the finish line as well. Right... people will somehow find a way to complain about how the wind from the helicopter's propellers will somehow assist certain lanes more than others. :wink: lol! i guess you're right.... theres no pleasing the masses. democracy doesn't work; lets institute a dragonboat dictatorship so that no one is allowed to complain. :lol: Title: Here are a couple of pics Post by: tiger on September 20, 2005, 05:09:04 PM Some are wondering about if FCRCC was ahead. Based on what I have seen in various videos floating around they were not ahead if at all.
Here are a couple of snapshots taken from a video camera. The first one is a minute and 40 seconds into the race (i.e. 30 seconds from the finish line). You can see lanes 2 through 6 in this shot, with 2 being the closest. The second photo is taken 5 seconds later. Clearly FCRCC is not ahead in either of these pics. For the person who indicated that Success rode FCRCC wash, I think that is impossible to do if they are ahead but I am no engineer so if you can explain how then please do help all of us understand how they did. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/tiger_db/platinum_final_100sec_mark.jpg) (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/tiger_db/platinum_final_105sec_mark.jpg) This next one is to dispel the rumour that either Success or CIBC did not cross in their lanes. It looks like they did on this pic. I put an arrow on the buoy between the 2 boats so they clearly crossed in their lanes (i.e no interference). (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a120/tiger_db/cibc_success.jpg) There is a reason why the X-files ended, there is nothing out there so lets move it along to more productive chatter. Title: Kelowna - wow! what a blast! Post by: ssleung on September 20, 2005, 09:51:40 PM Just wanted to thank everyone in the West for being so welcoming to us (esp. RGL United!)
Thanks for the great racing! Hopefully we'll be back in the near future! Steve Tempest Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 21, 2005, 09:54:43 AM Quote from: Lethal Weapon I believe they were oldere boats that Vancouver (DZ) sold them and they have been re-Gel -coated and repaired (Duct tape is a nice touch!) The excess weight seemd to affect the heavier teams as if you watched them go out the lettereing on the Kelowna boat was more below the water than other boats when they were loaded. My novice team I coach sadi that when they were paddling Saturday when it was rough they told me they were riding really low in the water hmm.. well I don't know if that really would have mattered. And a heavier team would make a boat sit pretty low in the water. I don't like to blame the boats anyways. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Lethal Weapon on September 21, 2005, 10:11:58 AM fair enough
Your team can take Barney (in what ever color it is now in kelowna) and we'll take another boat see if it makes a difference! The same team that sat low in the water in the lane 3 boat was fine next day in lane 1's boat NP, you can try telling some teams that boats (of the same make in the same event) don't make a difference and see how many agree with your theory good luck! Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 21, 2005, 11:35:43 AM Quote from: Lethal Weapon fair enough The same team that sat low in the water in the lane 3 boat was fine next day in lane 1's boat Well, sounds like you're speaking for those teams saying it's just the boats fault. Did you coach all those teams, or did those coaches or teammates divulge full details of the race to you? Quote NP, you can try telling some teams that boats (of the same make in the same event) don't make a difference and see how many agree with your theory I said nothing of the sort. So you understand me, I'm just not into blaming the boats at all for poor races. And to this date, I never have either. Clean and bailed... good enough! There's enough variables to think about without using Boat excuses as a crutch. And yes, I've won & lost races in good ol' Barney before. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Lethal Weapon on September 21, 2005, 11:56:17 AM yes ,i did and was on one of them!
NP There are many factors regarding the boat but seeing you have been in Barney you understand that even when Barney was clean it still was a pig compared to the other boats Sorry for misinterpeting your views! :oops: Title: My perspective Post by: seaboy on September 21, 2005, 01:26:11 PM Quote from: Sam Quote As someone who was in that race, I can assure you (and I've had people from SUCCESS, PAC REACH AND FCRCC MIXED all agree) that FC was NEVER ahead of SUCCESS at any time during that race (do you know the exact angle of the course?). I wouldn't hesitate to say that FC was never ahead of PR either. So say what you want about wash riding, but it didn't happen in that race - unless it was the other way around. Not so, as someone who was also in that race, I can assure you that in fact FC was ahead of both teams in that race. They pulled out shortly after the start and maintained this until just before the finish when it appeared that there were a couple of near collisions. Not sure what happened and who was at fault but something definatly happened that changed the course of the race. I was also in that race, I had a very good view of FC and PR. From my perspective PR led FC the whole race. I can't say about Success I couldn't see them until the end which makes me think they were trailing FC until the finish but might have been the angle. It looked like Success shot ahead in the last 1/4 of the race which was very surprising. I can also tell you that FC was in PR's lane at the halfway point, I saw them cross on PR's side of the buoy. That makes me think that they were being crowded by Success, again I can't say because I couldn't see Success. Just what I saw from my angle, no sour grapes. Congrats to everyone especially Success. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 21, 2005, 01:45:45 PM i still like my helicopter idea :lol:
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: ARMY on September 21, 2005, 03:50:00 PM I'd be careful with the helicopter comments Colossus.....some teams will start to expect them at festivals. Then any festival without a helicopter would be sub-standard for a "comp team".
Congrats to all teams in Platinum A for a great race....Success just pulled it out. Somebody had to win. :think: Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: BlueStreak on September 21, 2005, 05:30:18 PM <off-topic>
You know, that might not be as absurd as it sounds: Take one remote controlled hobby helicopter, add one wireless video camera system and off we go with the overhead race cam! ;) </off-topic> Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: willpower on September 21, 2005, 07:30:04 PM Well said Rossifumi, Angus, Guido, Colossus, ARMY, and others! SUCCESS did a great job, and I'm thrilled that they were able to end their season with such an awesome race to honour their fallen comrade.. RIP Cliff
It was also great meeting you guys from Tempest and hearing all the crazy stories you had to share.. it gives my team hope knowing how you guys started up so relatively recently and how you've been able to keep having fun even with all the competitive racing.. Gimme a shout when you're back from Whistler, and we'll go fill ourselves with drink and chubby chicken!! :lol: All in all, a great weekend.. lots of friends to be seen, and lots of interesting races (anyone see how Pac Reach was gliding in their Semi's?!? AMAZING!!!) Would've been nice to see some Millenium boats again, but sixsixteens work just as well... let's just not bring the Gemini's out there, okay? The lake seemed choppier than usual :? Was also great to see the Apocalypse Alumni come out again! You guys did awesome and were a great choice! Finally, thanks to all the Synergy teams for not going completely nuts and flooding the boats this time... I'm glad u guys got it our of your system at Taiwanese! :lol: Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: PaddleFunk on September 22, 2005, 02:25:31 PM Just to throw some more fuel on the fire :twisted:
Did anyone notice the Jet Ski that went zooming by about 1/2 way through the last race kicking up one heck of a wake??? I'm thinking that if you want to CLOSE the "EXPRESS LANE" that would be a good way to do it... From my perspective in the beer garden :lol: it seemed to that Alpha in lane 6 was leading till about the 1/2 closely followed by lane 5 and then they seemed to lose their momentum... could it have been the wake? Was it burn out from the fast stroke rate in fresh water? Was it just that the other teams turned it on and they couldn't? We may never know... What we do know... SUCCESS won... and congrats to them for pulling it out... they certainly had some motivation. Other than that... great weekend weather wise... water could have been calmer... there was adversity... there was contreversy... but if none of that existed what would we have to complain about and how boring would this forum be??? Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Secret Weapon on September 22, 2005, 03:01:00 PM Alpha in the lead in the final? Against Success, FCRCC, Pac Reach and Subaru?... I think not. Could it have been the angle of the course Paddlefunk? Most boats in lane 6 looked in the lead a lot of times because of the angle of the course. Or it could have been the effects of the beer you were drinking in the beer garden :lol:
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: PaddleFunk on September 22, 2005, 03:11:57 PM Thus the preface of the beer goggles... but the beer garden was also lined up reasonably well with the half way markers... and to suggest those who where standing at the finish line had a better perspective at this point in the race is counter to your argument... so unless you where running with the boats along shore... or in Colossus' Helecopter what you see is all based on the angle you're looking from.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Secret Weapon on September 22, 2005, 03:31:54 PM Okay to be serious about lane 6, you cannot judge from the shore who is in the lead unless you were in the timers tent to see how the angle of the race was laid out. It is always at any Festival/Reggatta very deceiving even if you look at the bouy lines to judge from the shore. I can assure you that Alpha was not in the lead at any time in the final.
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Secret Weapon on September 22, 2005, 03:51:27 PM Regarding angles, and in laments terms: Bouys lines do not reflect the angle of a race course and should not be used to judge placements throughout a race or finish.
Thank you Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: PaddleFunk on September 22, 2005, 04:06:27 PM Quote from: Secret Weapon Okay to be serious about lane 6, you cannot judge from the shore who is in the lead unless you were in the timers tent to see how the angle of the race was laid out. It is always at any Festival/Reggatta very deceiving even if you look at the bouy lines to judge from the shore. I can assure you that Alpha was not in the lead at any time in the final. So from this am I to assume, regardless of the result, that the tent which is a stationary object... at the finish line no less... has the best perspective of the race throughout??? Certainly at the finish line they are the authority I do not dispute that, and I am aware of drift and that buoys move thank you. But think about what you said for a minute... at midrace the person midcourse regardless of course layout has a better idea of what is going on at that point in the race that the person 250M down the course. So unless you where stearing or drumming on one of those boats you have no real idea about what mid-race positioning is like in a race that was as tight as that one midway. So unless you have some other way of visually triangulating all point of the course during the race from the timers tent you have to assume the person at midrace has a better perspective of the placing at that point. Oh and if you do have some methodology for comming up with who is in what place from the finish line throughout the race I'm sure the guys that where calling the race would love to know. Anyway I do admit that the angle I was looking from may not have been the best... the point that I was trying to make was that the outside lanes seemed to get swamped from the jetski that was ran along the side of the course. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Secret Weapon on September 22, 2005, 04:51:26 PM :wall:
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Colossus on September 22, 2005, 05:35:23 PM doo di doo... (as we continue to flog the dead horse) there is such a thing as OVERanalysing an issue...
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: rightarm on September 22, 2005, 06:02:51 PM flog flog flog
FLOGGING :BS: Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Luke on September 22, 2005, 08:32:23 PM hmmmm anyone noticed how synergy wasn't able to get their medals in front of the crowds on the count of the podium being located in THE BEER GARDEN. C'mon some respect for the juniors who worked hard to get to where they are :doh:
I felt guilty(bit) going(sneaking) in to hang out with my team. :wall: Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: ConfusedAsian on September 22, 2005, 08:39:47 PM Quote from: Luke hmmmm anyone noticed how synergy wasn't able to get their medals in front of the crowds on the count of the podium being located in THE BEER GARDEN. C'mon some respect for the juniors who worked hard to get to where they are :doh: I felt guilty(bit) going(sneaking) in to hang out with my team. :wall: Over the last 2 festival I've develope a healthy respect for the synergy teams Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Luke on September 22, 2005, 09:17:53 PM ah, oopsies, but good race, good race...
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Tien on September 23, 2005, 01:05:25 AM Quote from: ConfusedAsian Quote from: Luke hmmmm anyone noticed how synergy wasn't able to get their medals in front of the crowds on the count of the podium being located in THE BEER GARDEN. C'mon some respect for the juniors who worked hard to get to where they are :doh: I felt guilty(bit) going(sneaking) in to hang out with my team. :wall: Over the last 2 festival I've develope a healthy respect for the synergy teams Even though I'm a bit biased, I have huge respect for Synergy J-Speed. They did one hell of a job to be a Junior team to reach Diamond Final A and win the Silver. I was paddling with Synergy Dregoons and we only got the Jade Final A Silver. Mad props to J-speed and the rest of the teams in Platnium A. You all did one hell of a job out in Kelowna. Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: kathln on September 23, 2005, 09:37:07 AM Quote from: ConfusedAsian Over the last 2 festival I've develope a healthy respect for the synergy teams Thanks!! :D Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: PaddleFunk on September 23, 2005, 10:30:59 AM Quote from: Secret Weapon I can assure you that Alpha was not in the lead at any time in the final. Maybe take a look at the video that was posted today... and make sure the sound is on. http://www.dragonboatwest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2957 And sorry to the dead horse... Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Why Me on September 23, 2005, 10:51:09 AM sorry ...I was in that race next to them and they never were in front at any time
Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Sam on September 23, 2005, 11:19:14 AM Quote from: PaddleFunk Quote from: Secret Weapon I can assure you that Alpha was not in the lead at any time in the final. Maybe take a look at the video that was posted today... and make sure the sound is on. [url]http://www.dragonboatwest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2957[/url] And sorry to the dead horse... Wow, what a controversy! It really is time to lay this to rest especially because the only people that truly know what happened during this race were those who were on the water. As a spectator, video watcher, or even a paddler you simply cannot know what is happening to all teams/boats during a race. There are too many factors in play aside from just the strongest/fastest team. I was there in the midst of it and from my perspective I can tell you for certain that there were many factors that contributed to the outcome of this race. What you can't see from the shore, video, or another lane is that this particular race posed a huge challenge especially to the middle lanes. It was extremly crowded resulting in huge chop, major steering corrections, two very near collisions, and the inability to grab water due to the huge chop (and yes I know, that's paddling). In the end it is the team that endures and crosses the finish line first that wins the race and that would be team SUCCESS. Congrats to them. Title: Flogging some more.... Post by: Keen Man on September 23, 2005, 12:19:21 PM After watching the video, and listening to the audio, it seems to me the reason that SUCCESS appears to shoot to the front at the end is the same reason that the inane announcer has Alpha in from for the fist half of the race... parallax error.
On a different topic, but still Post-Kelowna, was I the only one who found the announcer to be one of the most obnoxious individuals they've every heard over a loudspeaker? Title: Kelowna Post-Race Post by: Rossifumi on September 23, 2005, 03:47:09 PM The guy announcing has been doing it forever and he's pretty good. No idea why he kept mis-pronoucing names he never had trouble with before though. Maybe he was feeling cheeky. Or drunk.
The lady announcer, well um, sorry to say she didn't add much but she gave it her best shot. In the end, good (and affordable) announcers are hard to find, so.. whatever. Just a festival. |