Dragon Boat West

Now that it is over, except for the headache  :lol:

What are you thoughts about this year?  What worked for you, what didn't?

My thoughts:

a.  Pretty much on time both days which is different.
b.  Guts and Glory took a long time to get going,  I was ready to go home and then they re-reraced it.
c.  Marshalling ran pretty good, except on Saturday when they called us 2 hours before our race.
d.  Semis were all close.  None were wipe outs like last year.  Finals were pretty awesome, some pretty close races.  
e.  Weather was great for racing not too hot and not too cold (of course my team was not out there in the downpour).

There were not so good things but I have to collect my thoughts about those.

Hopefully the festival reads what we say here  :lol:

My Grade for the racing side:  ?  Stay tuned

I thought from a organztional stand point it was probably the best one for a few years.  All the races were pretty much on time, the starter for all our races did a good job lining up all the boats and the marshalling area was really well done... I think the longest time we had to spend in that area from the time we were called to the time we actaully got in the boats was like 20 min at the most... in previous years i remember waiting in pre-marshalling for like 40 - 50 min.

The only thing that was a really concern to me and it was more from a safety standpoint was the guts and glory race.  The teams involved in that crash on the home stretch will probably tell how bad it was because i've talked to a few people from shore and they couldn't see what was happening. For example:

1) we got T-boned twice at a pretty good speed from 2 different boats
2) Our boat cracked and actually started to take on water
3) One of the boats just in front of us hit another boat and lost their drummer in the water.
4) there was one 1 6-16 with 2 other 6-16's wedged on top of the front of the boat right around where the drummer is
5) A team right next to us got t-boned and came really really close to flipping.

I think overall it was very well done.  No real complaints, i just think they need to figure out how to redo the guts and glory race just to make it a bit safer for the teams involved.

For once, I honestly can't think of any problems that are worth complaining about, especially on the racing side. The weather was comfy for racing in and even the downpour was entertaining. A bunch of the tents in the racers village got flooded... which was interesting, and I was pleasantly surprised to see Vera's Burger Shack on site!  :D
A pat on the back to everyone who worked so hard to bring us this year's festival.

All in all, I woud say that it was one of the better run Alcan Festivals. Races were on time. We had a bit of everything in terms of weather. Was it one of those festivals? Well.. let's see...

... Roli II beats Roli I... again
Nope.. didn't happen. Congrats to Roli I for their second place in Comp B, earning them another medal.

... Alpha drops their rate to 64 strokes per minute
Nope.. didn't happen. Think the lowest they got was about 86 SPM. Congrats on their Bronze in Comp B.

... Team United finally beats a bunch of kids
Nope.. didn't happen. I believe they were beat by the kids from Kryptic Storm this time.

... A certain paddler is wearing new shorts instead of those inappropriate shorts (ie crotchless ones) for the 15th year in a row
Nope.. didn't happen. At least not that I was aware of.
*edit* I stand corrected


... VO2Max makes it into the Comp A final
Nope.. didn't happen. Congrats to them on earning the Bronze in the Rec A division.

... Team Storm gets into a final and actually doesn’t come last
Happened. They made it to the Comp B Finals and ended up 4th. Of course, the difference between 4th and 8th was about 0.67 of a second. Couldn't be the boats since they were in Gemini's and we all know those are all equal... relatively (maybe not anymore after the G&G).

... nobody breaks a carbon fibre paddle
Didn't hear about any breaking. I'm guessing all of them were broken at the Regatta and the replacements didn't get delivered in time. Paddlers decided to try their hands on breaking more expensive items... like Gemini's.

... Pacific Reach finally gets a medal at Alcan
Happened. Congrats to Pac Reach for placing 3rd, edging out SUCCESS by half a second.

... Subaru Legacy finishes a race in their proper lane.
Happened.

... FCRCC Mixed wins the Rec E division
Nope.. didn't happen. Congrats to FCRCC on winning Comp A... and the Mens... and the Womens... and the G&G (even though I think they were involved in that Port Man Bridge re-creation down the home stretch)

... Swordfish hits a dog
Nope.. didn't happen. The SPCA got wind of Subaru's plan on airlifting all the strays in the Lower Mainland and dropping them in the races.

... during one of their waterfights, Synergy swamps a Gemini and puts it to the bottom of the Creek.
Nope.. didn't happen. But apparently during the G&G, one of the Gemini's did get damaged enough to start taking in water.

... the winner of the Guts & Glory has a reflective vest
Nope.. didn't happen. But it would have been nice to have some of the steerspeople go through a Breath-alyzer before going out on the water.

... Greg Lamb is relaxed and mellow
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

I think slabby appeared a couple of times on Saturday and Sunday but they had their races mixed up (never in a Subaru race).  I am pretty sure Slabby was parachuted in and went after VO2Max.  The only difference was VO2 finished in their lane and did not come last  :lol:

I think slabby also showed up against Roli II on Saturday, hmmmm, is this a mere concidence Lethal?  Me thinks not  :shock:

Overall steering was better than at the regatta, I guess that is why they do the regatta (and the vests I think worked well, slabby stayed away from those boats  :twisted: ).

And Congrats to the Drunk Dragons Blue team who placed in Comp C this year.. With a bronze medal no less..




--------------------
Whip me, Beat me, Make me feel cheap.. Drunk'n Dragons
Reach Reach Reach..

kids?   only at heart! ;)  although i guess if you compare their arms to ours......   hahaha

2 questions:

what is the guts and glory race? sounds like dragonboat derby...

what is the difference between comp and rec? is that like corporate and community teams?

guts and glory is a 2000m race on a 500m "track".  start on one side of a rectangle (three buoys on each side of the 500m), run counter clockwise there, back, there, and back to finish in the fastest time possible.  18 boats at 10 second start intervals this year.  you have to turn around the 3 buoys as fast as possible (maybe 25-50m from one end to the next??).  VERY cool to watch!


rec is recreational, for those that are there for the fun of paddling, not too into it.  sort of a once or twice a week type deal.
comp is WAY more competative (where "comp" comes from), turning out much faster times and practicing multiple times/wk.

I heard about one breaking, but I didnt see it so I dunno for sure.

I think I'm tired & hung over   :sick:



 Highlights noted :

 
 - Getting swamped by the VIP boat as we were heading to the A final and watching another team almost go over in the same wave .

  - Being frisked at the padder party by the SPP (Subaru paddle police) .They said something about  lookin for a paddle  :roll:

 - Paddleboy and Guido finally shake hands  :shock:

 - Paddleboy and old team come face to face  :shock:  

 - seeing old team make it to the rec A division to show paddleboy how much I p***ed them off  :wink:  ( good job team)

 - a brown lab coming over to me and asking which way to the Subaru tent . He was a little late so I directed him to the guts and glory race ,which was already under way, just as FCRCC was coming down the back straight

 - The young lady riding the bull topless at the Roli party  

 - and last ..............making the Comp A & mens podium

 

  On the downside :

 - No "Oh My"  girls anywhere to be found

StraightLine and i were talking yesterday on the rocks. they need to put up bleachers for the spectators, like at Indy.
fighting for a spot on the rocks and trying to get a clear view (clear shot in some cases like mine) through the squatting boats is re-darn-diculous.

get those boats out of the way....boats were blocking my view when I was by the rocks.

Completely agree...the racing is supposed to be the highlight of the festival, not some sideshow...It should be treated as such.  They should also have a big schedule and more PA's around so people coming to watch their loved ones slop around in sewage would know when they are supposed to be doing it.  I must've had four people in 2 minutes Saturday morning ask me what heat it was, and when a certain team was racing, and I had no clue where to find a posted schedule.  Not very conducive to attracting more spectators.  Also a shame this festival gets only a two paragraph blurb in the paper the next day. :?



Nope, no dog in the water, but our steersman almost was....and a great recovery it was! :D

I thought that the festival was the best run in the past 3 years (my paddling tenure).  Racing was actually seeded well on Sunday and yielded really competitive heats as a result.  Very exciting stuff.  I wish the distance between racers' tents and the docks were closer though.  Weather was "fun" too.  Nothing like drowning one day, and sunburning the next.  Congrats to all teams...can't wait til Victoria.

Alcan keeps getting better. It's a bit of a surreal event because it often feels like paddling takes a back seat to the event itself ... and yet the organizers make it fun for us, the paddlers. Competition is fierce and fair and exciting at all levels. Well done everyone involved.

I hate to be a buzz-killer... but what do you get when you take thousands of pounds of momentum, add a generous injection of adrenaline, combine with a weekend's worth of collective exhaustion, and add bravado to taste? For the past 3 years the Guts & Glory has been a major highlight - participants have a great time and it must be a blast to watch. But it's crazy. Not the good kind of crazy. It's structured for excitement - the strongest paddlers bearing down on those in the least stable boats and everyone's paddling for a $600 prize. The start intervals are too short and it's just a big wild risk to life and limb.

I came off the water smiling, but let's face it, the close calls keep getting closer. We're only laughing and shaking our heads today because there were no serious injuries. Safety was compromised, expensive equipment DEFINITELY was, and as a paddling community we have to take a hard look at this event. Instead of heightening the excitement level every year as we have been, how about backing it down a notch so it can still be fun without so much risk.

Very curious to read others' thoughts on this ...

I enjoyed the entire weekend.  

Too bad the "brain" behind the organization of the guts and glory reminded me too much of a Dilbert comic strip.      

It really doesn't help when everyone hears the DJ saying that we'll be going clockwise, and then shortly after, we're told that we're going COUNTER clockwise.   Seriously.. come on... especially after having to do a RESTART due to POOR communications.   Especially after some teams had done at least 500-1000m of the race.   If given the chance, I do have some choice words to say to whoever was in charge of that one (and I think that those who know me enough, know that I'm serious).   That was not professional in any/way/shape/form.

Otherwise, I have to say that everything went really well, despite the downpour and the aquabus incident near the end.   Very impressed.

Alcan was great! I had a blast. Organization on the water was superb! Great job hosting a festival for 100,000 people or so, and much dibs to Starbucks, Old Dutch, Sun Screen people, and Sunrise Tofu for having the best samples of the festival.


Two things to mention:

First, what is the point of Dragon Dollars? I find that they stifle the free market and make it a hassle for people to get food. What's wrong with letting the vendors take care of their own cash flow?

Second, what is up with no speakers near finish line? It's almost unbelievable that they would spend so much money and energy to get people to come out and then not provide speakers at such a central location where a majority of pepole are watching (speakers were near the announcer in the yellow tent and near the Starbucks Van, but nothing in betweend). A lot of people come to watch their friends... and to have a good communication system compromised by a lack of speakers is a waste of resources.

Otherwise, great job Alcan peeps. Looking forward to 2006 already!

nice! i did my first 2000m earlier on this year and it's like auto racing, gotta find the fastest line going into the corner and passing on the inside.

ok we dont have comp/rec here in the east. we just clump everyone together and that's why there is W division. :P there used to be corporate and community at the island, but this year we all race against each other.

anyway, alcan sounds awesome!

i am guessing it is so Alcan can track how much money is spent at the festival, or so Alcan can get a cut of it.

ermm.. I think that is a little misleading as it implies that teams themselves choose to race in either comp or rec.

All adult mixed teams start out in one large division. After the first two Saturday races, the teams are ranked. The top 27 teams go into the comp division, the next 27 teams go to Rec A, the next 27 to Rec B, and so on... The difference from this point on is that the Rec divisions are then further divided into championship final (medal), consolation and tail final races, whereas the comp division is divided into Comp A, B & C championships. All of the Comp finals are medal races.

you're both right really.

These days most people generally label a team rec or comp. to reflect how seriously they approach their training.  If your team runs A/B squads with timetrials, cuts etc, well generally you only see that on competitive teams anyways.

You also see certain things done on some (not all) competitive teams, like parachuting in paddlers at the last minute, or sandbagging a qualifier to get the lane you want for the championship final.  Last year I think they went with random lane assignments to cut that out.  I don't think they did this year though did they?

Looking at the schedule the lanes were preset this year.  Not sure it was better or not but based on the finals (Sunday afternoon) the lanes that placed well were all over the place (and not necessarily the middle lanes).

LOL...this kills me when I see people talk this way...it's called RECRUITING.  It's called knowing individuals that have the talent in knowing how to move a boat in the best skilled manner.  If these other (so called) competitive teams spent more time on the water in smaller boats and in the gym they too could be in the same class as these teams that can recruit and put together a team of talented individuals at the last minute(ie the Bald Eagles).

And I don't believe any of the competitive teams have ever sandbagged a race in the last 10 years or so to get a lane they want.....it's pride man....why would a comp team want to risk it....I've only seen sandbagging at the lower levels.....where it's easier to do.  I'm sure some know what I'm talking about.

Other than calling teams to pre-marshall HOURS ahead of time.....and the starter NOT being aggressive enough (ie asking them for another stroke over and over again) with some of the heats I'd say it was decently run.

Best run festival ever.  Everything on time, marshalling and race starts great, dock personnel great, race times dispatched quickly - technically excellent festival.

I agree about the danger of Guts and Glory.  I had a great time this year and last year, but you just know that unless the event is directed more effectively and some issues get looked at (like Gemini's being set up as hurdles for 6/16s), things are going to end badly.   Slow teams in front in Geminis!  Talk about incentive to make Comp A.

On the subject of Dragon dollars, they should be refundable to paddlers.  If they were, I would fill my pockets on Friday night and fill my belly all weekend without going through frustration and resentment over the present ordeal of staying nourished.

ATMs breakdown, dragon dollar sales people go on breaks and cause long lines, causing a frustrating challenge between races and whatnot.  Having to buy dragon dollars to buy a beer ticket to buy a beer was enough to make me drink somewhere else.

Could there be refundable PADDLERS DOLLARS, in recognition that we have all worked hard, paid good money, often travelled at considerable expense and generally committed substantial parts of our lives to getting a team to ALCAN so there can be a festival?  One kiosk, in paddlers village, and you need to show your registration card to buy and use them and to refund leftover on Sunday afternoon.  I know that if my DD were refundable I would have bought much more at the festival.

I guess I should write this to adbf, but I have a feeling they'll see it.  Any thoughts?

Pre-marshalling hours ahead of schedule??? I was keeping a pretty close track of when teams were being called to premarshalling and for the most part it was 40-50 minutes before the scheduled race time which I think is pretty reasonable.  Do you have specific examples of excessive lead times Guido?

As for the starter, I would have to agree for some of the races.  The men's consolation and final races on Sunday were experiencing some significant drifting due to the fast current that was generated by the incoming tide.  The starter was taking forever trying to line up the boats at the start line and ended up waving off the men's consolation (after having the boats back down off the line a couple of times) and the men's final started at least two boat lengths past the start line.  At that point, how can the starter even tell if the boats are in a straight line?  It should have been called as a running start and the boats that were screwing around by taking it easy approaching the line would have started behind the rest of the heat.

StraightLine.

Specific example? That would be saturday afternoon when they started marshalling heats 30-35 about and 1 1/2 before the scheduled time. We were still out for lunch when they marshalled our team, after scrambling we get to the pre-marshall area , without our steersperson no less, and they tell us to Go Away, come back 20 mins before the original scheduled  time...

Apparently their batteries had died in some of the radios so communication broke down.

The men's consolation was brutal.  First there was a mishap with the staging buoys (I think an aquabus caught one of them, not sure though), then the misstarts....but to top it all off, they decide to run the Men's Championship first and that stupid 'Abitibi' cruise boat has to do a u-turn in the middle of the race course.  We baked out there for 45 minutes.  Why that boat was even allowed in past the Cambie bridge is beyond me...Stupid :evil: .  It was the only real rough spot in the festival.

In all fairness to the race organizers, they probably don't have any options when it comes to allowing the Aquabuses and vessels like Abitibi passage through the race course.  It's either let them through your race course or find a new venue.

StraightLine.

Overall I though it was a pretty well run festival.
There were a few glitches and a few waits and delays but the Marshalling group kept everything moving pretty smoothly (even with Carie doing it...)
Results for the most part were up quick and schedules were posted in advance as well. and the paddlers party was a nice touch
(no charge and a free beer!)(Plus Awesome Vera burgers!)

Things to fix next year... :oops: .....(not all race related)
Keep the beer tent open a little later so the guts and glory competitors can have a frigging beer.
Maybe have the entertainment a bit earlier (Chiliwhack band members are getting too old to stay up that late.. :lol: )
More speakers in racers village
Letting people know where there tents are beforehand (nothing like lugging a cooler for 20 minutes)
Photog was rigth about maybe some bleachers at the finish so spectators can watch
Get someone who knows a little more about dragonboat racing to announce besides the 2 yokels that are there every year.
And of course the Guts and glory format should be changed. 10 seconds is maybe a bit too close together. And giving the faster teams faster boats isn't that great an idea either if you want to even the playing field so it could be more excitng in terms of times.

Aside from that. Great job Waters Edge! looking forward to next year as well!

My only complaint would be the paddler party afterwards...........compared to other years it was really lame . It was like a last minute throw together and the price of booze was crazy.Did you see the size of the $6 wine glass. ...........It was a mini glass (almost shooter size) and $5 a beer for draft ...get serious .

 In future I would like to see a better party to go to .Last yr was way better and the year before that was awesome . It seems to be going downhill every yr .

I totally agree about that our boat almost got flooded by one of the army boat, coming back into the dock.

1 of the problems with getting other teams from out of province to race here is the cost .The Alcan is a very expensive festival and add to that travel costs .Go back east and you can find just as good of races for 1/2 the cost plus alot more of them and the competition in some cases is better .

 The other problem is our gemini's ....... why would a team want to spend all that money and come here to race in a boat that is known to be difficult if you have not trained in them before . How many out of town teams did you see win that had never been in a gemini ? I don't think any won . If your an out of town team you want to have a level playing field . Buk's ,SRS ,foundation,6-16 ,etc are a piece of cake compared to a gemini .

 my 2 cents ...........

Alcan was awesome. Great weather, both days. The rain on Saturday made things interesting, and the blistering heat on Sunday allowed us to play in the sun inbetween races and marshalling.

The "festival" part of it was okay, not very many events going on. But we all came for the "race" part of it. The races were incredible. Comp Division was definitely exciting to watch, was very difficult to see which teams would have won since most of the teams were so evenly matched. Saw some new teams make it into the comp Division and high Rec Divisions. Congrats to those teams.

Guts and Glory was poorly run. I'm sorry to say. I'm sure there were circumstances backstage, but we had to wait a long time in the heat for the race to start. Safety was compromised, yes, I know many of commented on that. Definitely surprised they decided to restart the race, all the paddlers were exhausted, I'm sure. Overall, it was still quite entertaining and I was satisfied.

Is this the same guy who MC'd the award ceremony!?!  I thought it was kind of offensive when he messed up the word "Ismaili" over, over and over again.

Loading and unloading at the dock takes too long for each race.  Should have another loading docking next year.

My 2 bits worth ...  in no particular order ... :wink:

Moturismo, Bernman & others have it nailed ... most things were done right ... mostly better than last year, too.

(BTW B-man: you sure light up when a camera's in range, don'cha?  See Roli G&G shot in Lethal's mesgs.  Focus, boyo, focus!!  Like yer bud B, 2 seats back ... wotta take-no-prisoners stare that is!!! :P  :P )

The new Pool system & advancement-into-Semis method is a great improvement!!
 
- group everyone into 3 pools
- run each pool in consecutive heats (6, here, over about an hour span for each), Sat AM then PM
- set it up so everyone gets one heat each in 6/16 & Gemini
- then determine Sun Semi placings by "points for finish position, with tie-breaks on time-delta from pool average" (I'm guessing it was pool average?)
- mix the pools in the Semis so that no two same-ranked teams are in the same Semi (e.g., 9th from C, 8th B, 7th A, 6th C, etc.)

Brilliant!  Neatly wipes out effects of the Tide, & the Gemini-vs-6/16 speed differences.  And makes it imperative that everyone always race hard, since the time deltas are the tie-breaker for any finish-point draws.

Kudos to whoever thought it up!  :D

Victoria - are you listening??  Same thing there would be great.

I assume Water's Edge will use much the same method for Kelowna?

Still needs careful seeding of the heats, tho - but that seemed to be the case, this time, IMHO.

Didn't like that they again put the top-ranked team in the "favoured" lane - the middle - with lower rankings progressively outwards, rather than a random draw (at least for the Semis & Finals).  That's always seemed to me to be a bit unfair - but then again, the results this year have a lot more "outside lane" winners & top-placers.

I'm not sure, but I think they also tried to make sure a given boat (esp. the 6/16s) was not used in the same lane for 2 pool races in a row.  The Geminis are not too bad, but there ARE some noticable diffs in the 6/16s (and mucho THANKS to whoever decided not to inlcude DZ's Barney the Purple Pig in the boats used)!!

They DO need better speakers for the crowd, & in the Race Village.

LOVE the idea of refundable D-dollars, or paddler-dollars.

I had heard a rumour a month or so ago that a temporary loading dock was going to be set up in the NE corner of FC, close to the Race Village.  Didn't happen, obviously - but would be a great idea next year (if it's even possible).

Wonder why they didn't setup race loading at the dock at the East end of the Plaza (where some of the Dinner boats hang out)?  That's MUCH closer to the Race Village.

Also had heard that a spectator's g-stand was going to be set up, along the N side Seawall (one of the old Indy stands?).  Would have made a lot of sense!  Next year?

The squatter boats have GOT to go!  Did anyone else run into stinky sewage from some boat(s) in there!  YEEECCHHH!

G&G .... hmmm, better make that a separate mesg!  I was in one of the boats that got T-boned (2 or 3 times!).  So boy, do I have a story to tell ...

Anyone know what's the "Tail Race"

For each Recreational Category

There are three Semifinals
Top 3 go into Champsionship
Next 3 go into Consolation
Next 3 go into Tail Race

Which splits up each final race for each recreational category into
9 teams in Championship
9 teams in Consolation
9 teams in Tail Race

I seriously doubt this would ever happen as it takes away one of the primary reasons for having those 'dollars' in the first place.  Besides the security benefits for vendors on site, this type of currency generally promotes spending.  Most people don't know how much they'll need, and they don't want to always keep lining up to exchange money so they'll generally over-buy the # of dragon dollars they need.

Now you say you would fill your pockets and belly if they were refundable, but I honestly don't believe that at all.  If you don't mind me saying, it sounds like an 'unrealistic' justification for the end result you really want.  You don't want to be burned.  Not, Gee, I want to eat and spend more.
 :wink:

imho, it would be chaotic for 1000+ people to line up at the end of Alcan to get their 2 or 3 bucks back. And it's also not a good idea for the dragon dollar tents to have a large float sitting around for refunds.

where's jing du?  im a little curious as to what he/she thinks of this event esp when compared to an eastern festival.   thx.    :lol:

Personally, overall the festival was run well.  My main issue, (I think someone touched on it earlier) is the distance between the Racer's Village and the festival.  I understand that they wanted to have all the things for the visitors a little closer to the finish line...but having to run from the Village, through the crowds and stands, to the docks was a bit much.  As well, the announcements of the races need to be a little louder.

But they did well to keep the races on schedule.  I still don't feel comfortable with the boats racing into Science World and coming so close to the edges of the water...but I suppose it's the best situation for viewing the races, which is how the festival makes the money.  

Amusing was the row of porto-potties in between the stands and the dock...everytime you ran past (particularly on the second day) you had to hold your breath!  It must be some kind of bio-hazard to have so many of them in one row!  j/k...

Overall though, I've always liked Alcan...it's always the most fun out of all the local festivals...and the most organized.

CIDBFS has NEVER made money....if they did...it may have only been 1 or 2 years .....The Festival in Vancouver is NOT A MONEY MAKER....it's always losing money.

The "Festival" is what is draining the funds from the "Race" side.  How is it that a small festival like Kelowna and Victoria and the few other smaller ones have nice Bayliners and Grady Whites and Boston Whalers as chase boats....and Vancouver....a bigger venue....can't have proper OFFICIALS BOATS.  If in the guts and glory race....there'd been a collision....you think those rinky dinky boats that these officals were using would have been able to rescue anyone?....ha....they weren't even equipped with ladders to rescue people out of the water.  Ask the General Manager of this festival if she's ever paddled in a dragon boat and if she's ever been concerned about the safety of a paddler.  She's the one that has taken on the responsibility of providing these safety boats for these races....did anyone notice that inflatable that was sitting behind the marshalling section all weekend?....notice how dilapidated it was?....and THAT was suppose to be an OFFICIALS BOAT......

Oh yea....and the porta-potties.....did anyone count how many were at Racer's Village?....I think they had something like maybe....what...less than 20?......and there were what...137 tents....with about what 22 occupants at least per tent?....wow..if my math is correct...that's about what?....3014 people?.....ok....let's add about 90 coaches.....so that's now...3104 people....right?....well....if you went all the way to the SW corner of the site above the docks....those were the cleanest toilets....because.....who wanted to trek all the way over to there to use them?????  My bladder would have exploded by that time. msn(:'()

I know I know....bitch bitch bitch....what can I say......maybe Turtle Turtle should write all my scripts.....

I (Shudder...) have to agree with Guido on this one. As a devout non swimmer and general lump of lead in the water, I am concerned about the safety of the paddlers on the water. If someone had been injured in the race then if would have been difficult to get them in those boats to get to shore. I . personnlay have been rescued by a boat that did not have any system (a ladder would have been nice) to get people on board from the water and you should have seen the scratches and bruises on me when they tried to haul my heavy ass out of the water into their boat. (looong story.... :oops: ) Better escort and safety boats should be a consideration for any large festival as a safety issue!
ALSO maybe someone should have told those nice Army gentlemen in their boats not to Power down the course between races as the wake nearly flipped a few geminis....DOH!

I also heard that the sponsors wanted Racer's Village where it was so that all the paddler's would have to go through the Marketplace before and after each race, encouraging impulse buying.

If that's true, that's an excellant idea.

i dunno. i don't know of any paddlers who carry their wallets with them on the way to and from a race. though it does force paddlers to be exposed to the vendors, thus encouraging them to go back if they see something they like.

Why is the Racer's Village so far from the docks?

I had talked with co-race director Larry Chu at the ADBF regatta, and I think he had said the plan was to move the docks over to the North East corner, and cut a hole in the railing to accomodate a rampway.  Logistics probably prevented this from happening.  This will be a plan for future races anyways...

Otherwise - Why not have the Racers Village on the parking lot south of Dragon Zone?  Then all the racers can camp out in the tents all day, and only come out for their races.  Afterall, this is a festival, and it is exciting to see the teams walking through the "fairgrounds."  

Remember - this is a FESTIVAL first!  The Canadian International Dragon Boat Festival Society was founded on the notion that a festival with dragon boat races would be a good way to promote multiculturalism in Vancouver - not to develop Olympic quality paddling teams to send to Beijing in 2008, or to promote breast cancer awareness.

Has it succeeded?  You bet!  People and other communities started copying the Dragon Boat Festival format in Vancouver.  Toronto started in 1989, and soon all across North America, dragon boat festivals were popping up everywhere.  Not for the benefit of racers - but for promoting multiculturalism in their communities.


Saturday Seeding Races

As a Rec D team, I think it is impractical to think that Rec C, D & E teams should pay $2000 to enter a festival where they have NO CHANCE of winning on Saturday and are basically expected to finish last or second to last.  Witness the drop in teams from 180+ to 163 this year.  With more teams coming in for this coming week's Breast Cancer DB Festival - there should have been even MORE teams for ADBF.

As a former Comp Division racer, the most fun I had was when we still had Competitive, Recreation and Novice Divisions.  Previously all comp teams raced against each other Saturday and Sunday, jockeying for position in Comp A or B.  All the races were close and we got to practice race tactics instead of being expected to win each and everyone of our Saturday races.

If the race committee is worried that teams will try to enter in lower divisions - then repechage races will re-direct teams to the proper division level.  Otherwise it is ridiculously too easy for a Rec A level team to have a collision, or mishap, and end up in a lower division - witness Team Masala this year getting bumped down to C division because of a time penalty in their Saturday Race.

I say - bring back the Comp, Rec and Novice Divisions.  Everybody is being pre-seeded anyways... all to prevent the top Comp Teams from racing each other and knocking themselves out.  This is not fair to the other 135 non-comp teams.

Regarding that last comment, I don't think many teams place much weight on winning actual seed races on Saturday, just for the sake of winning.  It's all about ending up as far up the standings as you can make it, and being in the fight for the win in the championship final.

Keep in mind also, that as far as Sat's seed races, even really fast, top rec teams don't stand a chance winning a race where you have guys like FCRCC mixed or Success mixed in either.

It sounds like a good idea to immediately divide comp, rec and novice teams, but there are real benefits to the current format.

- It gives up & coming teams their fair crack at earning a berth into the 'competitive' division.  (it's just a name, but it feels good!)  Try telling Ruckus or Swordfish they would have had to stay in the Rec division this year.

- It's good for rec & entry level teams to be racing top teams.  Yeah, that means they might get smoked.  The point is they get to race them on the water, they get to see how good teams get.  Like a lot of people I know, it inspires them to reach higher ground.

- It goes a long way to blending the Dboat community.  Hey, we're all on the water, racing each other.  Community's small enough as it is here in the West, I don't think we need to segregate comp and rec teams entirely.

hahaha, maybe I should  :lol:

dude, you obviously missed out on the beer garden.....  ;)

You said the following:
(BTW B-man: you sure light up when a camera's in range, don'cha? See Roli G&G shot in Lethal's mesgs. Focus, boyo, focus!! Like yer bud B, 2 seats back ... wotta take-no-prisoners stare that is!!!   )
So you obviously know who I am. Who the heck are you is the real question now! LOL And yes my buddy "B" is all about the seriousness. Trust me I know!  :evil:

Guido, Guido, Guido! I can't believe I am going to say this but heck what the hell!

What do you think those Army boats were all about? Did you notice there were 3 of them? And they were big enough to transport at least 10 bodies each I think. The point I am making here is that perhaps you are right. Perhaps the boat I was riding in (the same ones you've used in the past) may not have done the job in the event of such a disaster but the Army dudes were there just for that reason. And thankfully they were never needed. Out of their 3 boats on the water one of them even had a first aid responder with all the typical gear that first aiders use.

So I think safety was definitely thought of and I would like to think that everyone out there felt that they were in good hands should the need ever arise in such an event. In my 14 years of DB racing I have yet to see an incident where other boats were called to the scene to assist. PHEW!

Guido, I think you're not aware of everything involved this year on the Race side of things. I understand that it must have been difficult while you were one of the race officials in previous years, to hold your tongue when you saw problems, but now that the nice lady General Manager has let you go and you are no longer involved, I don't think you have the full story.
I don't think you should be so critical, when it wasn't perfect in the past, either. As someone else pointed out, the Army stepped up in a big way to address the only real concern, and that was safety. I understand that it was the lady General Manager who arranged to have a professional rescue team on site. Try to be more positive.
 Everyone involved this year, from the administrators, the Race Officials, the volunteer organizer, to the volunteers, deserves a lot of praise for their hard, unseen, work to make your days of racing, a success.

On a different subject, how else is Alcan going to keep account of sales and collect their percentage to recoup some of their outlay for the festival cost, than use Dragon Dollars? It is a cheap simple system that works well.  
Guido, you're right, the festival does not make money, and something IS needed to provide proper equipment and services. Dragon Dollars work well. Too bad if a few drunks are miffed that they can't spend their last 3 dollars on a beer after last call, for most people there was not a problem.

I thought the officiating was fair, without bullying, and didn't hinder the race schedule, either.

Can't wait until next year!

:Cheers:

very well thought out and reasoned.  You should post here more often.

she has the advantage of being in the know. at least i figured the dragon dollars right.  :P

teamLARD has been coming from los angeles for about 6 years to participate in alcan.  we love this tournament because of the beautiful city of vancouver and the competition we find at these races (not to mention the favorable exchange rate).   the competition at alcan is always so good - we like to come up, get whipped and get motivated for our yearly races in san francisco and long beach (we like to give the excuse that we drink too much saturday evening to do well on sunday ;)  ).  those freakin' frcc teams are sick.

the tournament ran well.  ony a few gripes - first, the team tents were too small.  seemed like we used our tent as a storage locker and loitered outside of it because we couldn't fit under it - perhaps the tents could be bigger next year?

as for the actual races, our men's team was in the consolation final where there was a delay due to the start bouys.  i didn't understand why they allowed the men's final to sneak in before us and run their race first while we baked in the sun.  perhaps someone can explain this one to me?

another issue was w/ the finishing buoys.  they were nowhere near the finish line - not even close.  my team was fortunate enough to win the Rec A final (from lane 9, none the less!) but the buoys were so crooked, i thought we finished 3rd.  it wasn't until we got back to the docks did we figure out our placing.  it would help in the future if the buoys could be more in line w/ the actual finish line - it would help out both the participants and the spectators.  it would also allow the boats to stop sooner so as not slam into the sea wall.

i understand that the dragon dollars are a necessary evil, but it would be great if we could get a refund on unused dragon dollars - nothing like getting back to the states and having canadian money and dragon dollars in your pocket.  perhaps next year, the beer gardens could be the only place that accepts money & credit cards????  the place is enclosed, so fraudulent acitivity could easily be avoided.  nothing like having to stand in 3 lines for a beer (the dragon dollar line, the ticket line, and the beer line).

but overall, the tournament was fantastic.  it's a good bet LARD will be back next year to get worked again....

thank you all for your hospitality.

"uht"

on the note about dragon dollars...yes indeed they are eveeeel!!!
although i understand their intensions, but it's esp. unfair for outta towns ppl.
they come and usually buy a bunch of D-dollars cuz as LARDcore says about the line-ups, it's the easiest way to do it. but wut do u do with the remining worthless pieces of fake money after the festival?!?!?! it's like a trap i tell u!!!!

maybe collect them as memobilias???!?!?!?!!? lol
i think since they have this sys, they may as well allow the currency to be used the yr after. this way people will get their money's worth. (or at least ppl would think so. but most of the time these lil' papers will just be misplaced)

on the other hand...i guess ppl mite start to make fake-fake money....um.....

  :?   dat's just sad........but whoever would consider doing that..really needs a life!  :evil:  :lol:

by the way
i think it was someone from LARD that spotted me when i was being a doh-doh when purchasing some muchies.....whoever it wasTHANX ALOTTTTTTTTTT....!!!  :oops: